Huge Spanish Colonial Sword

Robert · 30th October 2005, 04:26 PM

This is the largest Spanish Colonial sword that I have seen. I have others with longer blades but nothing that is as heavely bladed as this one is. The blade is bevel ground on one side only, except the false edge which is ground equally on both sides. It weighes in at almost 1-3/4 lbs. The guard and fittings are brass. The tang goes all the way through the hilt and is rivited over. Grip is wood and well carved. One question, should the brass fittings and guard be cleaned on this or just left as they are? All comments are welcome.

Blade length is 23-5/16" with slight yataghan style.
False edge is 7-1/2" and sharp.
Blade width at hilt is 1-1/2"
Width at narrowest is 1-3/8"
width at false edge is 1-5/16"
Blade thickness at hilt is 1/4"
Thickness at false edge is 3/16"

Robert · 2nd November 2005, 09:35 PM

Can anyone tell me where to find more information on Spanish influenced knives and swords from the Philippines, and the knives and swords of the Spanish American War?

not2sharp · 2nd November 2005, 11:27 PM

Robert,

Any chance that the "yatagan" shaped simply emerged from use and sharpening? Nice interesting piece.

n2s

Robert · 3rd November 2005, 12:38 AM

n2s,
It does show use and sharpening but the slight "yatagan" shape that I mentioned comes the contour of the spine as well as the edge of the blade. As soon as my daughter returns my camera I will post a better side view picture of the sword so you can see what I'm talking about.

Robert

Renegade Conquistador · 5th November 2005, 03:38 AM

Interesting piece.

Would this be considered a type of espada ancha? That term seems to be pretty loose, and applies to a variety of cut-and-thrust swords used by Colonial Spanish in the New World, at least.

M ELEY · 7th November 2005, 05:26 AM

Very nice sword,indeed! IMHO, I don't believe that this is from the New World. It does have somewhat of a Spanish colonial flare, but if it is, probably more from Spain's other ports (Moracco, the Philippines, possibly). Spanish pieces on this side of the pond usually don't have such flowery decorations as this, usually have the simple line designs, etc). Of course, there are always exceptions to the rule. Later Mexican pieces do have decorations like the hilt on this, but much later periods (early 20th), and don't have the age, quality of hilt or style of blade that this one has. I'm interested as well in the Spanish-influenced Philippine swords?

Ian · 7th November 2005, 05:48 AM

In terms of Spanish influenced Filipino swords, here is one we discussed back in May. It is a sundang from the Tagakaolo people near Davao City in Mindanao.

The blade style is similar to the example above, chisel-ground with a false edge but lacking the long fuller. The hilt is a local form.

Ian.

Battara · 7th November 2005, 07:02 AM

I have been thinking ever since you posted this Robert (and it hurts

). I have seen similar pieces in the hands of not just Spanish but Katipunero officers in some of the old pictures in the older books of the turn of the century. Will have to look back at some of my research if interested.

M ELEY · 7th November 2005, 07:06 AM

Excellent example of similar form. I also noticed in the pictures of the sword in question that in the 8th pic down from the top, there are line decorations near the throat of the blade. These look like an imitation of the tiered effect seen on so many bolos I've seen (you know, the ones people try to pass off as colonial American!

). The floral pattern on the knuckle bow...could it possibly suggest any particular area in the Philippines?

Robert · 7th November 2005, 07:18 PM

Ian,
The fuller you mention on my sword is just an optical illusion caused by the lighting when the picture was taken. The sword has no fuller. By the way the sword you posted is absolutely beautiful.
Renegade,
I believe that this sword is definitely from the Philippines.
M Eley,
I'm glad you are interested in this type of sword too. Do you have any examples that you could post?
Battera,
I think you could be right about it belonging to a Katipunero officer and would be very interested in any more information you might be able to supply about them and the weapons that they carried. I have a couple more swords that I think were also carried by them and will post pictures of them as soon as I get my camera back.
Again I thank everyone for their help.

Robert

Ian · 8th November 2005, 04:29 AM

One thing I have noticed with Spanish colonial swords from the Philippines, i.e. those swords which seem to have Spanish influence, is that the tang and hilt are "off center" with respect to the long axis of the blade. The tang seems to be more asymmetrically positioned, towards the spine of the blade, such that the spine and handle often seem to have the same continuous line. This orientation is seen also in the so-called Mediterranean knives, and in Spanish colonial knives from the late 20th C. that are attributed to the Canary Islands.

You can see this feature in the first example of this thread, and in the pictures of the sword that I posted above.

While this feature may not be exclusively Spanish, when it is seen in former Spanish colonies I would suggest that it reflects Spanish influence on the local patterns of weapons.

Moro Swords/knives, Visayan weapons and traditional native weapons from Luzon consistently seem to have a tang that is placed centrally.

Having made this gross generalization, I await critics with a multitude of examples proving me wrong.

Ian.

30th October 2005, 04:26 PM	#1
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Huge Spanish Colonial Sword This is the largest Spanish Colonial sword that I have seen. I have others with longer blades but nothing that is as heavely bladed as this one is. The blade is bevel ground on one side only, except the false edge which is ground equally on both sides. It weighes in at almost 1-3/4 lbs. The guard and fittings are brass. The tang goes all the way through the hilt and is rivited over. Grip is wood and well carved. One question, should the brass fittings and guard be cleaned on this or just left as they are? All comments are welcome. Blade length is 23-5/16" with slight yataghan style. False edge is 7-1/2" and sharp. Blade width at hilt is 1-1/2" Width at narrowest is 1-3/8" width at false edge is 1-5/16" Blade thickness at hilt is 1/4" Thickness at false edge is 3/16" Attached Images Last edited by Robert Coleman; 31st October 2005 at 01:23 AM.

7th November 2005, 05:26 AM	#6
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,101	Beautiful sword! Very nice sword,indeed! IMHO, I don't believe that this is from the New World. It does have somewhat of a Spanish colonial flare, but if it is, probably more from Spain's other ports (Moracco, the Philippines, possibly). Spanish pieces on this side of the pond usually don't have such flowery decorations as this, usually have the simple line designs, etc). Of course, there are always exceptions to the rule. Later Mexican pieces do have decorations like the hilt on this, but much later periods (early 20th), and don't have the age, quality of hilt or style of blade that this one has. I'm interested as well in the Spanish-influenced Philippine swords?

7th November 2005, 07:06 AM	#9
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,101	Excellent example of similar form. I also noticed in the pictures of the sword in question that in the 8th pic down from the top, there are line decorations near the throat of the blade. These look like an imitation of the tiered effect seen on so many bolos I've seen (you know, the ones people try to pass off as colonial American! ). The floral pattern on the knuckle bow...could it possibly suggest any particular area in the Philippines? Last edited by M ELEY; 7th November 2005 at 07:08 AM. Reason: Wrong numbered pic

8th November 2005, 04:29 AM	#11
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,207	One thing I have noticed with Spanish colonial swords from the Philippines, i.e. those swords which seem to have Spanish influence, is that the tang and hilt are "off center" with respect to the long axis of the blade. The tang seems to be more asymmetrically positioned, towards the spine of the blade, such that the spine and handle often seem to have the same continuous line. This orientation is seen also in the so-called Mediterranean knives, and in Spanish colonial knives from the late 20th C. that are attributed to the Canary Islands. You can see this feature in the first example of this thread, and in the pictures of the sword that I posted above. While this feature may not be exclusively Spanish, when it is seen in former Spanish colonies I would suggest that it reflects Spanish influence on the local patterns of weapons. Moro Swords/knives, Visayan weapons and traditional native weapons from Luzon consistently seem to have a tang that is placed centrally. Having made this gross generalization, I await critics with a multitude of examples proving me wrong. Ian. Last edited by Ian; 8th November 2005 at 04:40 PM.

2nd November 2005, 09:35 PM	#2
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Can anyone tell me where to find more information on Spanish influenced knives and swords from the Philippines, and the knives and swords of the Spanish American War?

2nd November 2005, 11:27 PM	#3
not2sharp Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 210	Robert, Any chance that the "yatagan" shaped simply emerged from use and sharpening? Nice interesting piece. n2s

3rd November 2005, 12:38 AM	#4
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	n2s, It does show use and sharpening but the slight "yatagan" shape that I mentioned comes the contour of the spine as well as the edge of the blade. As soon as my daughter returns my camera I will post a better side view picture of the sword so you can see what I'm talking about. Robert

5th November 2005, 03:38 AM	#5
Renegade Conquistador Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: The Blood-Stained Sacrificial Pyramid of the Aztecs Posts: 16	Interesting piece. Would this be considered a type of espada ancha? That term seems to be pretty loose, and applies to a variety of cut-and-thrust swords used by Colonial Spanish in the New World, at least.

7th November 2005, 05:48 AM	#7
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,207	In terms of Spanish influenced Filipino swords, here is one we discussed back in May. It is a sundang from the Tagakaolo people near Davao City in Mindanao. The blade style is similar to the example above, chisel-ground with a false edge but lacking the long fuller. The hilt is a local form. Ian.

7th November 2005, 07:02 AM	#8
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,226	I have been thinking ever since you posted this Robert (and it hurts ). I have seen similar pieces in the hands of not just Spanish but Katipunero officers in some of the old pictures in the older books of the turn of the century. Will have to look back at some of my research if interested.

7th November 2005, 07:18 PM	#10
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Ian, The fuller you mention on my sword is just an optical illusion caused by the lighting when the picture was taken. The sword has no fuller. By the way the sword you posted is absolutely beautiful. Renegade, I believe that this sword is definitely from the Philippines. M Eley, I'm glad you are interested in this type of sword too. Do you have any examples that you could post? Battera, I think you could be right about it belonging to a Katipunero officer and would be very interested in any more information you might be able to supply about them and the weapons that they carried. I have a couple more swords that I think were also carried by them and will post pictures of them as soon as I get my camera back. Again I thank everyone for their help. Robert