A question of Chinese Pole arms

Gavin Nugent · 21st March 2008, 02:41 AM

I am hoping someone can help me with a question I have about an old pair of Chinese pole arms I am considering. What is unual is that they are all wood, blades too. They are Kwan Dao in style and show a great amount of age. No images at this stage, but I am hoping someone out they can tell me something of the relevance of being all wood in construction.

regards

Gavin

Andrew · 21st March 2008, 03:35 AM

Training or decorative? Hard to say more without good pics.

Gavin Nugent · 21st March 2008, 03:59 AM

Here they are behind my WWII Dao and 19th Century sabre.

regards

Gav

Philip · 21st March 2008, 05:24 PM

The things are of a type of hafted weapon used for military purpoises in China since the Song Dynasty, and the official name has always been "yanyuedao" (reclining [i.e. crescent] moon knife). The term "kwandao" may be a regional dialectic term which has now morphed into "dojo-talk" used universally in today's martial arts world. Because "kwandao" and its variants are not reflected in the Chinese military literature, I avoid its use.

These all-wood versions in the pics are temple regalia. Looking closely at the decoration on the blades, and the work on the shafts, I tend to think that they are from Vietnam where the weapon is called "xien" or "yem nguyet dao" (the latter having the same literal meaning as the Chinese). I have seen an almost identically-constructed set of these wooden polearms, along with two handed sabers, in one of the sanctuaries of the Bach Ma Mieu (White Horse Temple) in Hanoi's Old Quarter.

Yanyuedao were also used in Korea, where they were called "unwoldo" (same meaning as Ch. and Viet.). The Okinawans also used them, their name for it escapes me at moment.

josh stout · 21st March 2008, 07:18 PM

Do you know anything about the word "kek" being a general word for Chinese pole arms? I have seen it in a 19th c. account of Southern Chinese weapons by an American author, and in Dreager's "Weapons and fighting arts of Indonesia". I suspect it is a dialect term of the Haka or similar ethnic group. Various kinds of pole arms are then combined with the word "kek" much in the way that varieties of saber are combined with "dao".

Within the martial arts community, Chinese Indonesians say "kwan dao", and use other dialect words for other weapons such as "shang to" for "shuang dao".
Josh

Philip · 23rd March 2008, 04:04 AM

"Kek" is one of the southern Chinese dialectic terms meaning "halberd". The Cantonese say "gok". In Mandarin, it's "ge" ("ko" in the Wade-Giles romanization, and so used in many of the older books dealing with classical Chinese art and culture). In ancient times, the "ge" was a bronze dagger-axe, a sickle-like blade attached to a wooden pole.

By the Ming Dynasty, the "ge" had morphed into a polearm comprised of a spear, with a SINGLE crescent blade mounted points-out from two short lateral brackets springing out of the solid steel shaft between the spear blade and the pole-socket. It has an uncanny resemblance to the crescentic-bladed halberds used in Europe at about the time of the Spanish conquest of America, and later events. However, I doubt that there is Euro. influence on the "ge" since similar weapons are shown in Song Dynasty texts, albeit by different names.

A weapon as described above but with a PAIR of addorsed crescents,one on each side of the spear, is called "ji" (partizane). The name of the weapon is a homophone for "auspicious"; you see court paintings of royal progeny playing with toy partizanes and shooting off firecrackers on New Year's Day. A stand of "ji" represents someone who has attained the rank of an officer.

21st March 2008, 02:41 AM	#1
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	A question of Chinese Pole arms I am hoping someone can help me with a question I have about an old pair of Chinese pole arms I am considering. What is unual is that they are all wood, blades too. They are Kwan Dao in style and show a great amount of age. No images at this stage, but I am hoping someone out they can tell me something of the relevance of being all wood in construction. regards Gavin

21st March 2008, 03:59 AM	#3
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Pic. Here they are behind my WWII Dao and 19th Century sabre. regards Gav Attached Images

21st March 2008, 05:24 PM	#4
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	wooden pole arms The things are of a type of hafted weapon used for military purpoises in China since the Song Dynasty, and the official name has always been "yanyuedao" (reclining [i.e. crescent] moon knife). The term "kwandao" may be a regional dialectic term which has now morphed into "dojo-talk" used universally in today's martial arts world. Because "kwandao" and its variants are not reflected in the Chinese military literature, I avoid its use. These all-wood versions in the pics are temple regalia. Looking closely at the decoration on the blades, and the work on the shafts, I tend to think that they are from Vietnam where the weapon is called "xien" or "yem nguyet dao" (the latter having the same literal meaning as the Chinese). I have seen an almost identically-constructed set of these wooden polearms, along with two handed sabers, in one of the sanctuaries of the Bach Ma Mieu (White Horse Temple) in Hanoi's Old Quarter. Yanyuedao were also used in Korea, where they were called "unwoldo" (same meaning as Ch. and Viet.). The Okinawans also used them, their name for it escapes me at moment.

23rd March 2008, 04:04 AM	#6
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	"Kek" "Kek" is one of the southern Chinese dialectic terms meaning "halberd". The Cantonese say "gok". In Mandarin, it's "ge" ("ko" in the Wade-Giles romanization, and so used in many of the older books dealing with classical Chinese art and culture). In ancient times, the "ge" was a bronze dagger-axe, a sickle-like blade attached to a wooden pole. By the Ming Dynasty, the "ge" had morphed into a polearm comprised of a spear, with a SINGLE crescent blade mounted points-out from two short lateral brackets springing out of the solid steel shaft between the spear blade and the pole-socket. It has an uncanny resemblance to the crescentic-bladed halberds used in Europe at about the time of the Spanish conquest of America, and later events. However, I doubt that there is Euro. influence on the "ge" since similar weapons are shown in Song Dynasty texts, albeit by different names. A weapon as described above but with a PAIR of addorsed crescents,one on each side of the spear, is called "ji" (partizane). The name of the weapon is a homophone for "auspicious"; you see court paintings of royal progeny playing with toy partizanes and shooting off firecrackers on New Year's Day. A stand of "ji" represents someone who has attained the rank of an officer.

21st March 2008, 03:35 AM	#2
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Training or decorative? Hard to say more without good pics.

21st March 2008, 07:18 PM	#5
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	Do you know anything about the word "kek" being a general word for Chinese pole arms? I have seen it in a 19th c. account of Southern Chinese weapons by an American author, and in Dreager's "Weapons and fighting arts of Indonesia". I suspect it is a dialect term of the Haka or similar ethnic group. Various kinds of pole arms are then combined with the word "kek" much in the way that varieties of saber are combined with "dao". Within the martial arts community, Chinese Indonesians say "kwan dao", and use other dialect words for other weapons such as "shang to" for "shuang dao". Josh