Coat of Arms of Coucy - messengers badge?

AHorsa · 18th September 2020, 09:52 AM

Hi there,

although it is not an arm or armour but a coat of arms, I hope someone can help here. I recently got this coat of arms. It measures 7.5 x 6cm and weights 35 g. The shield itselfs seems to be made from bronze or copper with an attached layer of silver or another "white" metal (see also 3rd image). According the paper note on the backside it was found in the river of Seine.

The CoA is the one of the Maison de Coucy: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maison_de_Coucy

It seems that the potentially blue parts are already gone. I can´t tell from what material the red areas are made. The white metal represents the white areas of the blason.

Is it possible that this shield is a messengers badge?
I found some examples here (which of course are larger and from much better quality):
https://www.metmuseum.org/search-results#!/search?q=messenger%20badge

What do you think about its possible age?

Looking forward to your comments!

Best regards
Andreas

AHorsa · 20th September 2020, 07:57 PM

No ideas?
The shape of the shield indicates 13th century. At this time the Coucies have been one of the most powerful families in france. I wonder if this blazon could really be from that period.

fernando · 20th September 2020, 08:11 PM

Andreas, perhaps best to move this to the Miscellania forum

.
Great find, by the way

.

AHorsa · 21st September 2020, 10:37 AM

Thank you Fernando!

fernando · 21st September 2020, 12:25 PM

This appears to be a very old object.
I hope someone can throw some light into this interesting item's history.
Angles to take into account:
It is quite a long way from Coucy to the river Seine; wonder how it got there ... and gor how long it stood in the bottom of the river.
We may assume that, the paper tag on its back must have been placed right after it was found ... by someone fishing ?

Oliver Pinchot · 21st September 2020, 09:06 PM

A DISTANT MIRROR, by Barbara Tuchman, 1978, concerns the de Coucy family.
It's quite detailed; perhaps it can offer some insight.

18th September 2020, 09:52 AM	#1
AHorsa Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Rhineland Posts: 367	Coat of Arms of Coucy - messengers badge? Hi there, although it is not an arm or armour but a coat of arms, I hope someone can help here. I recently got this coat of arms. It measures 7.5 x 6cm and weights 35 g. The shield itselfs seems to be made from bronze or copper with an attached layer of silver or another "white" metal (see also 3rd image). According the paper note on the backside it was found in the river of Seine. The CoA is the one of the Maison de Coucy: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maison_de_Coucy It seems that the potentially blue parts are already gone. I can´t tell from what material the red areas are made. The white metal represents the white areas of the blason. Is it possible that this shield is a messengers badge? I found some examples here (which of course are larger and from much better quality): https://www.metmuseum.org/search-results#!/search?q=messenger%20badge What do you think about its possible age? Looking forward to your comments! Best regards Andreas Attached Images

20th September 2020, 07:57 PM	#2
AHorsa Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Rhineland Posts: 367	No ideas? The shape of the shield indicates 13th century. At this time the Coucies have been one of the most powerful families in france. I wonder if this blazon could really be from that period.

20th September 2020, 08:11 PM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Andreas, perhaps best to move this to the Miscellania forum . Great find, by the way .

21st September 2020, 10:37 AM	#4
AHorsa Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Rhineland Posts: 367	Thank you Fernando!

21st September 2020, 12:25 PM	#5
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	This appears to be a very old object. I hope someone can throw some light into this interesting item's history. Angles to take into account: It is quite a long way from Coucy to the river Seine; wonder how it got there ... and gor how long it stood in the bottom of the river. We may assume that, the paper tag on its back must have been placed right after it was found ... by someone fishing ?

21st September 2020, 09:06 PM	#6
Oliver Pinchot Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 457	A DISTANT MIRROR, by Barbara Tuchman, 1978, concerns the de Coucy family. It's quite detailed; perhaps it can offer some insight.