Persian mail and plate shirt.

[estcrh]

I ran into this image of a Persian mail and plate shirt and I had to laugh, this is in the Los Angeles County Museum of Art.

[ALEX]

Originally Posted by estcrh

I ran into this image of a Persian mail and plate shirt and I had to laugh, this is in the Los Angeles County Museum of Art.

Did you laugh because it is not Persian or because it is Ottoman

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by ALEX

Did you laugh because it is not Persian or because it is Ottoman

Alex, look at the shoulders...someone at the museum put a pair of dizcek (cuisse or knee and thigh armor) on the shoulders. There is no way that any museum personal should make a mistake like that. Dizcek have a large round plate that covers the knee and mail and plate that covers the thigh. You can search the internet and not find another example like this so were did the museum come up with this idea. Here is an image showing how they should be worn. As far being Persian or Ottoman that would be a much more understandable mistake to make.

[ALEX]

WOW! This is really good one, Estcrh. Incredible indeed. I've seen a fair share of mistakes in many museums, but never a mega blunder like this Thanks for sharing!

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams estcrh ALEX and all... I have to say I didn't spot that either, moreover, I was looking for something funny ... Now that you point it out it is quite amazing how someone has put this all together wrongly (unless the wearer fell from his horse and that's where his knees ended up!!) I suppose it is funny...ha! Did you mention it to the Museum?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams estcrh ALEX and all... I have to say I didn't spot that either, moreover, I was looking for something funny ... Now that you point it out it is quite amazing how someone has put this all together wrongly (unless the wearer fell from his horse and that's where his knees ended up!!) I suppose it is funny...ha! Did you mention it to the Museum?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Ibrahiim and all, I have found that museums in general do not want to be told that they are wrong, here is another example. Recently I spotted this image being posted all over the internet. It is a samurai full face mask (somen), there is no doubt about that, anyone can google "samurai somen" and come up with matching images. There are several different versions of this somen but all have the same basic description.

Iron Executioners Mask, European 1501-1700 Wellcome Library, London

So I did a little detective work and found the photographer responsible for taking one of the images, he was actually very cordial, he stated that he simply copied the museums description of the image and he felt that seeing the respectable nature of the museum (The Wellcome Collection) that owns the somen that they must be right in the accuracy of the description, but he did say that if the museum changed their description that he would do the same on his images.

So I did a little more digging and found links to the images with the wrong description. (http://wellcomeimages.org/indexplus/image/M0005113.html) and (http://wellcomeimages.org/indexplus/image/M0005114.html). So I thought that this would be an easy one, I contacted the museum many months ago and sent them all of the information they would need to see that the item being described as a "European executioners mask" was in fact a samurai somen. Well the mask is still mislabeled and the museum never replied to me.

[estcrh]

Here is another classic example from the Military Museum, Istanbul Turkey. This is an inexcusable mistake seeing that this is Ottoman armor and should have been easily identifiable, but somehow museum employees have no clue as to how their own countries armor was worn.

[ALEX]

I cannot agree with you more, Estcrh. Both Askeri Muse and Topkapi Palace armory have countless mistakes, some on a verge of being ludicrous, and some well beyond . Some museums are not really interested in academic study (cause it involves work , and they assume their tourist audience does not care much either. They just want to show some weapons to the kids and keep the ticket sales going. I'd not spend any effort pointing it to them, it'd be frustrating waste of time in most cases. One should be proud by noticing the mistake, silently smiling and telling to oneself: "good catch", and enjoying the show... and later sharing it with those few who know here on the Forum So, well done and thanks for sharing!

[JamesKelly]

Ahh . . . I am new to the world of swords and armor & really don't know any more than those museums. To me, joining this site has been like when I went from the Smart Guy in High School to lowly Freshman in college. This Freshman still works to comprehend the Obvious-to-You errors.

For example, that last photo of some plate armour on a man's fore-arm looks to me like - what? For a horse's nose? Damnifino.

Oh, well. I'll figure it out.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by JamesKelly

Ahh . . . I am new to the world of swords and armor & really don't know any more than those museums. To me, joining this site has been like when I went from the Smart Guy in High School to lowly Freshman in college. This Freshman still works to comprehend the Obvious-to-You errors.

For example, that last photo of some plate armour on a man's fore-arm looks to me like - what? For a horse's nose? Damnifino.

Oh, well. I'll figure it out.

James, here is a link to help you, one hint...that is not an arm guard.


http://www.pinterest.com/samuraianti...persian-armor/

[VANDOO]

HERE ARE 3 PICTURES OF A JAPANESE SAMAURAI ARMOR MASK VERY SIMULAR TO THE ONE POSTED FOR COMPARASION.