Sword for ID

Iliad · 9th September 2015, 09:52 AM

Good Morning/Evening all,
I realise that my Title of "sword for ID" is not particularly informative, but I do not know what else to put!
The blade has been chromed and so any markings on the blade have been obscured.
To my uneducated eye, the sword appears European, but I really have no idea as to what I have.
Any comments at all will be much appreciated.
Regards,
Brian

Jim McDougall · 9th September 2015, 12:24 PM

Brian, a very handsome sword indeed! and by 'style' it is potentially a British hunting hanger of mid to latter 18th century. Actually in its form it very much resembles (if I recall correctly) one which was owned by George Washington (particularly in the hilt form which is wrapped in what is known as a gadroon style).
It is of course hard to say from photos more on authenticity, and it is hard to fathom why someone would chrome a blade. Whatever the case, that is pretty much the description as far as form.

Best regards,
Jim

Hotspur · 9th September 2015, 04:28 PM

Washington's cuttoe was made by an Englishman that had settled in colony of New York.
http://amhistory.si.edu/militaryhist...path=1.6.r_728

I'll take a look through Hartzler's book
http://www.amazon.com/Silver-Mounted.../dp/B000TBGWMA

British silver hilts should have hallmarks on the guard. Some British silver plated hilts may not show marks but it was expected. Below a link to a sold item at Bonhams refering to Bailey with a blade marked with a German maker
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/13081/lot/1476/

The tang button on the sword shown here is not original and the blade no doubt dismounted for plating. The modern nut and button as much a shame as the plating. While the blade type is of the form that may belong with such a hilt, we must always keep later composites in mind. Either someone added an extention to the tang, or the blade was salvaged from another sword. It does also appear that the blade was shortened, as the main fuller runs through the point, which looks reground.

A rather horrid composite recently went through auction but that belongs in a separate discussion.

Cheers

Jim McDougall · 9th September 2015, 07:58 PM

Thanks Glen, I was hoping you would enter on this as your knowledge on these American swords is of course well established here. A similar example appears on p.212 of Peterson, "Silver Hilted Swords" in "The American Sword".

broadaxe · 11th September 2015, 03:23 PM

I used to have the same sword. It is a british 'coutau' style, made by Wilkisnson during the last decades (before they shut off the gates of course), as it was signed with the crest of queen Elizabeth II. Probably to commemorate an occasion of some sort. The grip was made of imitation ivory and all the metal parts were of silver plated grey metal.

Hotspur · 11th September 2015, 05:31 PM

Spot on!
http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-us/au...2-a47f0147855e

https://www.ukauctioneers.com/auctio...t&imagesOnly=N

9th September 2015, 09:52 AM	#1
Iliad Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 187	Sword for ID Good Morning/Evening all, I realise that my Title of "sword for ID" is not particularly informative, but I do not know what else to put! The blade has been chromed and so any markings on the blade have been obscured. To my uneducated eye, the sword appears European, but I really have no idea as to what I have. Any comments at all will be much appreciated. Regards, Brian Attached Images

9th September 2015, 12:24 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,957	Brian, a very handsome sword indeed! and by 'style' it is potentially a British hunting hanger of mid to latter 18th century. Actually in its form it very much resembles (if I recall correctly) one which was owned by George Washington (particularly in the hilt form which is wrapped in what is known as a gadroon style). It is of course hard to say from photos more on authenticity, and it is hard to fathom why someone would chrome a blade. Whatever the case, that is pretty much the description as far as form. Best regards, Jim

9th September 2015, 04:28 PM	#3
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 499	Washington's cuttoe was made by an Englishman that had settled in colony of New York. http://amhistory.si.edu/militaryhist...path=1.6.r_728 I'll take a look through Hartzler's book http://www.amazon.com/Silver-Mounted.../dp/B000TBGWMA British silver hilts should have hallmarks on the guard. Some British silver plated hilts may not show marks but it was expected. Below a link to a sold item at Bonhams refering to Bailey with a blade marked with a German maker https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/13081/lot/1476/ The tang button on the sword shown here is not original and the blade no doubt dismounted for plating. The modern nut and button as much a shame as the plating. While the blade type is of the form that may belong with such a hilt, we must always keep later composites in mind. Either someone added an extention to the tang, or the blade was salvaged from another sword. It does also appear that the blade was shortened, as the main fuller runs through the point, which looks reground. A rather horrid composite recently went through auction but that belongs in a separate discussion. Cheers

9th September 2015, 07:58 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,957	Thanks Glen, I was hoping you would enter on this as your knowledge on these American swords is of course well established here. A similar example appears on p.212 of Peterson, "Silver Hilted Swords" in "The American Sword".

11th September 2015, 03:23 PM	#5
broadaxe Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 332	I used to have the same sword. It is a british 'coutau' style, made by Wilkisnson during the last decades (before they shut off the gates of course), as it was signed with the crest of queen Elizabeth II. Probably to commemorate an occasion of some sort. The grip was made of imitation ivory and all the metal parts were of silver plated grey metal.

11th September 2015, 05:31 PM	#6
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 499	Spot on! http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-us/au...2-a47f0147855e https://www.ukauctioneers.com/auctio...t&imagesOnly=N