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#1 | |||
Member
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 90
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Hi all, so while doing some very superficial google images research on our old friend the laz bichaq, I stumbled upon a DeviantArt post, of all things, that led me down a most interesting rabbit hole!
I suppose I should state that I've always found the claim of "laz bichaq" (or bichagi) being the proper name for this type of sword to be rather suspicious. This is primarily due to the fact that "bichaq" is just a blatant loan word from Turkish, meanwhile Georgian, a language that Laz is actually related to, uses terms like "khmali" and "khanjali" for their weapons, which, one will note, bear no resemblance to the term "bichaq". This is not intended to discredit or disregard the work that I know a number of old forum members here have put in to finding this term, but rather to point out what I see as a clear contradiction. As frivolous as some might find it to be, as far as the "name game" is concerned I've always been a staunch supporter of the notion of native terms above all others. "Laz sword" or "karadeniz yataghan", in my mind, will never be as accurate as any native terms, even if those terms ultimately translate to the aforementioned ones. Anyways, back to this deviant art post, it is simply a picture of what we have called a laz bichaq, but posted by someone who appears to be ethnically laz, and has added the following description: Quote:
Now, unless we are all to be overly skeptical here and claim that this person is *not* laz and in fact has just typed up gibberish, I think at a surface level there is no reason to believe that what they write is not true. Still though, as I figure there might be some skeptics that read this, I have done my best to substantiate their claims by defining the following laz words; Lazuri Didi Xami, which may very well be the native laz term for what we call "laz bichaq". "Lazuri" should really go without saying. The wikipedia article for the laz language itself gives the term "lazuri nena" as translating to "laz language", so clearly "Lazuri" is relating to its origin within the laz themselves. "Didi" is said to mean big or large. Given that there aren't that many Laz -> English dictionaries out there online, this word was at first hard to verify, but I found this page of a whole 500 laz proverbs (with english translations) that support pretty clearly the idea that didi means something to the affect of big or large. Here's one proverb that uses "didi" twice: Quote:
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#2 |
Arms Historian
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,896
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Fasten your seatbelts!
![]() Meanwhile, VERY nice work Nihl. |
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#3 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Russia, Moscow
Posts: 368
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This is an excellent work and it certainly deserves attention and should be taken with all possible seriousness.
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#4 |
Arms Historian
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,896
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#5 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Russia, Moscow
Posts: 368
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#6 |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Aussie Bush
Posts: 4,167
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Nihl:
Thank you for your careful work in defining what seems to be the local descriptor for the (so-called) laz bicaq. As others have noted, your findings deserve careful consideration. The main discussants of this topic have taken a short holiday from the Forum, so it may be a while before they weigh back in. Please feel free to expand on your ideas in their absence. ![]() Do we have any native-speakers of the Georgian/Laz language who might assist Nihl in his efforts? |
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#7 |
Arms Historian
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,896
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