ITALIAN INFANTRY SWORD(VENETIAN?)circa1600

Skarts_ss · 21st April 2014, 03:12 PM

Hi
recently i bought this sword. I think that it is a Venetian infantry sword. The grip and the pommel seems to be restored. Does anybody recognize the makers mark??? Ive seen it in other swords of that period.
any comments welcome.
Thanks

Jim McDougall · 22nd April 2014, 07:46 PM

This is as noted, an arming sword of early 17th century and Italian, three of them shown in Bocchia & Coelho ("Armi Bianche Italiene", Milan, 1975) #585;586;587 and all captioned 'spade de fanti' Veneto, 1620-30.
References show corresponding examples Blair (1962) #179; and Ffoulkes (1917) IX49.

The grip and pommel do appear replacement as the originals had faceted egg shape pommel, worked ferrule and the grip 'turks heads' are absent on this one.
The crosshatching on the guard at center is also notably present on the illustrated examples.

You say you've seen this 'mark' (name?) on other swords of this period? What is the name, I cant make it out. The blocked capital letters seem more Solingen to me, and one of these examples has 'IOHANN' partial in the fuller. This blade seems one of the Solingen schiavona type.

fernando · 22nd April 2014, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

... You say you've seen this 'mark' (name?) on other swords of this period? What is the name, I cant make it out...

Are the visible letters ... SACCHI ? An Italian type of name

.

Iain · 22nd April 2014, 08:35 PM

These hilts are sometimes known as "crab claw" hilts. I would agree the grip is certainly a later replacement. The pommel also doesn't "fit" to my eyes for the reasons Jim mentioned. They are typically not round like this one, but elongated egg-like shapes. Often multifaceted instead of smooth and typically with an extension at the end to house a tang nub.

In any case an interesting and nice sword. I've also seen SACCHI on various Italian swords from the period, a maker's name perhaps? In any case I don't believe this is a Solingen product. The north Italian blade manufacture industry was more than alive and well in the 17th century.

Jim McDougall · 23rd April 2014, 05:19 AM

Thanks Nando and Iain, so its SACCHI . That is interesting, and good to know this is likely Italian rather than Solingen. It seems these makers were indeed quite active in the 17th century as you well note Iain. There was a great deal of cross traffic between there, Germany and Spain in these times, and as I noted the extremely blocked letters just seemed German.
Ive always thought the scallop shell guards were interesting, and this one apparently reasonably restored, is a great example!

fernando · 23rd April 2014, 12:47 PM

... And if you keep on digging, you end up finding something. Master Sacchi is not such an unknown smith ... maybe good enough to have his name forged by less famous rivals, a custom often followed in the period.

http://www.weapons-universe.com/Swor...aissance.shtml

QUOTING ...Sword blades were manufactured in Toledo and Valencia (Spain), Solingen and Passau (Germany), and Milan and Brescia (Italy). They were sold as unhilted blades and then hilted locally at their eventual destinations throughout Europe. Some blades are marked by their maker, although many are plain. Notable bladesmiths’ names include Piccinino, Caino, Sacchi and Ferrara from Italy, .Johannes, Wundes and Tesche (Germany) and Hernandez (Spain).. Respected names were often stamped on blades by lesser-known rivals to enhance the value of an inferior sword.

.

23rd April 2014, 12:47 PM	#6
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	... And if you keep on digging, you end up finding something. Master Sacchi is not such an unknown smith ... maybe good enough to have his name forged by less famous rivals, a custom often followed in the period. http://www.weapons-universe.com/Swor...aissance.shtml QUOTING ...Sword blades were manufactured in Toledo and Valencia (Spain), Solingen and Passau (Germany), and Milan and Brescia (Italy). They were sold as unhilted blades and then hilted locally at their eventual destinations throughout Europe. Some blades are marked by their maker, although many are plain. Notable bladesmiths’ names include Piccinino, Caino, Sacchi and Ferrara from Italy, .Johannes, Wundes and Tesche (Germany) and Hernandez (Spain).. Respected names were often stamped on blades by lesser-known rivals to enhance the value of an inferior sword. . Attached Images Last edited by fernando; 23rd April 2014 at 12:58 PM.

21st April 2014, 03:12 PM	#1
Skarts_ss Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 47	ITALIAN INFANTRY SWORD(VENETIAN?)circa1600 Hi recently i bought this sword. I think that it is a Venetian infantry sword. The grip and the pommel seems to be restored. Does anybody recognize the makers mark??? Ive seen it in other swords of that period. any comments welcome. Thanks Attached Images

22nd April 2014, 07:46 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,940	This is as noted, an arming sword of early 17th century and Italian, three of them shown in Bocchia & Coelho ("Armi Bianche Italiene", Milan, 1975) #585;586;587 and all captioned 'spade de fanti' Veneto, 1620-30. References show corresponding examples Blair (1962) #179; and Ffoulkes (1917) IX49. The grip and pommel do appear replacement as the originals had faceted egg shape pommel, worked ferrule and the grip 'turks heads' are absent on this one. The crosshatching on the guard at center is also notably present on the illustrated examples. You say you've seen this 'mark' (name?) on other swords of this period? What is the name, I cant make it out. The blocked capital letters seem more Solingen to me, and one of these examples has 'IOHANN' partial in the fuller. This blade seems one of the Solingen schiavona type.

22nd April 2014, 08:35 PM	#4
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,693	These hilts are sometimes known as "crab claw" hilts. I would agree the grip is certainly a later replacement. The pommel also doesn't "fit" to my eyes for the reasons Jim mentioned. They are typically not round like this one, but elongated egg-like shapes. Often multifaceted instead of smooth and typically with an extension at the end to house a tang nub. In any case an interesting and nice sword. I've also seen SACCHI on various Italian swords from the period, a maker's name perhaps? In any case I don't believe this is a Solingen product. The north Italian blade manufacture industry was more than alive and well in the 17th century.

23rd April 2014, 05:19 AM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,940	Thanks Nando and Iain, so its SACCHI . That is interesting, and good to know this is likely Italian rather than Solingen. It seems these makers were indeed quite active in the 17th century as you well note Iain. There was a great deal of cross traffic between there, Germany and Spain in these times, and as I noted the extremely blocked letters just seemed German. Ive always thought the scallop shell guards were interesting, and this one apparently reasonably restored, is a great example!