An immense Khyber sword

[Stasa Katz]

(To moderator I already purchased this item. Am putting in link from ebay. If this is wrong, feel free to delete entire post.)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=221024886648

Dear friends, I recently had the pleasure of purchasing this on eBay from Major Tomm.

Fascinating item. Handle is shorter than is customary for a salawar yataghan, aka khyber sword, yet the blade is 3 to 4 inches longer than is usual for such blades.

The blade has a series of interesting marks, am not sure if they are an attempt to replicate old European hall markings or not.

Animal head on pommel is another unusual feature.

Blade has the T spine, but the T structure is less pronounced, and a bit shallower than the other, more typical khyber sword I own.

Even arrived with a quite good scabbard that is probably not original but still very well made. Scabbards suffer a lot of wear and tear and sword scabbards, being much longer than knife scabbards would likely incur very much harder use as tips project out and likely to hit hard on rocks as wearer walks by. A wood core scabbard would probably have more and eventualy splitstress from the greater weight of a sword blade, making original scabbards very difficult to come by.

A most interesting beast.

[Dom]

Hi John
a very nice Kyber sword, surely has been a faithful comrade,
for an old proud Afghan warrior
could be nice from you, to display here, your own pictures,
included the scabbard
nice caught

à +

Dom

[Norman McCormick]

Hi John,
My apologies but I have my serious doubts as to the authenticity of your Khyber knife with regard to its age. Some time ago another Forum member purchased an item from the same source which turned out to be 'less than he had hoped' although, apart from that particular one, I could/will not comment on any other items this dealer/collector has sold or has for sale. It probably does come from India but not I think from the first half of the 19thC. I sincerely hope I am wrong and I await further comments from other members with interest. If I am correct you will not be alone just joining a long list of collectors who have 'misconstrued' an item advertised by a supposed authority on the Net.
Regards,
Norman.

[Dom]

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Hi John,
My apologies but I have my serious doubts as to the authenticity of your Khyber knife with regard to its age. ...snip... It probably does come from India but not I think from the first half of the 19thC.

Hi John and Norman
I will try to adjust it a bit, this first comment
ref. to A.C. Tirri in his book "Islamic Weapons"
most of "khyber knifes (to don't said ... all) recorded in his book, are declared 19th century
the Khyber knife displayed by John seems similar, at least by the blade, the handle, it's an other matter

I have read the following comments;
- grip are usually made of horn, bone, ivory
- blades of the better specimens are made of wootz steel
- some early versions have a slightly recurved blade
the handle from John's knife, doesn't match with general description

now where I'm backing my friend Norman, it's about "authenticity"
- unique antique Afghan Indo-Persian sword (as far as, they are hand made, all are "UNIQUE")
- surely this must have belonged to a chief or tribal leader (absolute extrapolation , without a beginning of prove)
- possibly an executionner's sword ? (pure phantasm)

in short, just sales pitches without any technical merit and without valid references

all the best

à +

Dom

[Rick]

I would simply observe that the pommel of this sword is in violation of the tenets of Islam; is it not ?

[Dom]

Originally Posted by Rick

I would simply observe that the pommel of this sword is in violation of the tenets of Islam; is it not ?

LOL
Rick in the caracter of, a .... "Great Ayatollah"
the Qajars, have had helmets with what it was supposed to be an "evil face"
as well as their mace, horned devil
in our days ... should be an other story

à +

Dom

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Rick

I would simply observe that the pommel of this sword is in violation of the tenets of Islam; is it not ?

Salaams Rick, Im missing something here.. . what is the violation ...? Ah you refer to the illustration of animal form ~ That would be the case in certain parts but not Indo Persian/ Afghan regions. The artform developed differently. Ibrahiim al Balooshi

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all~ It looks like a real one to me ~ The wear looks uniform and the hilt seems right... I saw a load of these in Kabul (Chicken Street) Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Norman McCormick]

I saw a load of these in Kabul (Chicken Street) Ibrahiim al Balooshi. [/QUOTE]


Hi Ibrahiim,
This possibly reinforces my point?
My Regards,
Norman.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

I saw a load of these in Kabul (Chicken Street) Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Hi Ibrahiim,
This possibly reinforces my point?
My Regards,
Norman.[/QUOTE]

Its possible~ Afghans make all sorts of old new stuff.. but looking at the wear it seems old enough to include in 19th C ...Its not overdone decoratively which tends to happen to tourist knives/swords. The sword blade marks are peculiar ... Ive not seen them before which is a plus..ie not a popular copied style of blademark... The wear looks consistant but without being able to closely observe it... I think it wise to hold a decision in the 50/50 region. In Chicken Street you can commission a brand new one for about the same price...
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi

[colin henshaw]

Not my main speciality area - but I would certainly say the brass animal head hilt part did not originally belong to the knife, and has been added at some stage, as others have pointed out.

Where and when it was added is open to question...