Horseman's 16th century Battle Axe

PClemente · 4th December 2012, 01:06 AM

Hi All,

I am posting pictures of a 16th century horseman's battle axe for comment and observations. I am also trying to educate myself on such weapons and find there is little literature specifically on the horseman's axe. I was wondering when such weapons were in use and how late they were used on European battlefields (I have seen a contemporary picture of Prince Rupert carrying an axe during the English Civil War, and read accounts of Thirty Years War curriasseurs sometimes utilizing them as secondary arms).
As always thanks for your insight!
Regards,
P

fernando · 4th December 2012, 05:35 PM

Hi P,
Nice axe you got there

.
Have you started by the easiest method?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_axe

Sure there is some information on this subject here in the forum; trouble is to find it

.
Maybe some of the members chime in with some input

A Senefelder · 4th December 2012, 06:58 PM

Axes continued in use in the eastern Europe for longer than the west but were used in the west into the 17th century. As full plate armour become fully developed twords the end of the 14th century wespons better suited to damaging/breaking it were needed. Simply put while a sword is great against soft targets you cannot cut your way through plate with it ( in fact both the Italian and German longsword schools developed techniques relying priciply on the point of the sword for dealing with armoured opponents as the edge of the sword was of limited effectiveness ). This cause the hammer, the mace and the axe to become of more importance. While an axe has a sharp cutting edge it is a small surface area, unlike the long blade of a sword, which makes it much more effective in transmitting force against a hard target as the force cannot spread out anywhere near as far on an axe blade as on that of a sword so it allowed an axe to be used against sort targets for cutting but also against hard targets as more of an impact weapon like a hammer or mace. Equipping it with a fluke or back spike which could punch a hole through plate armour and you had an effective weapon against hard targets and soft.

fernando · 4th December 2012, 07:25 PM

So good that you came in, A Senefelder

Surely this transmission of knowledge contributes with a great added value to the forum

PClemente · 5th December 2012, 12:14 AM

Many thanks for the input gents.
Any guess as to regional origin of the axe? I have seen another axe with a wooden haft featuring nails down the length, but the axe itself seemed distinctly Italian in form, as opposed to this axe which appears more Germanic(?).
Also, is there anyway to tell if the haft is the original or at least period, as opposed to a later addition?
Thanks again!

A Senefelder · 5th December 2012, 03:17 AM

For what its worth and strictly my opinion, this particular axe feels a little Eastern European to me. The transition to all steel construction of war axes and hammers was in full swing in the 16th century ( and had more or less already transitioned in mace construction by the end of the 15th century ) hardwood hafts for all three remained popular in the east right into the early 18th century ( not that all steel construction couldn't be found in the east but hardwood construction was just as common as all steel construction became more of less the rule in the west by the 17th century ).

Jim McDougall · 5th December 2012, 06:35 AM

This is far outside my normal fields, but this is an interesting looking axe, and I will say my thoughts corresponded with Alan with the East European feel. Actually I was thinking of the one in the saddle of 'The Polish Rider' by Rembrandt, probably because of the spiked poll. In looking further into that, what the 'rider' is actually carrying is a 'nadziak' which is actually a war hammer rather than axe, and this is clearly not a 'war hammer'.

I cannot resist noting the similarity of this axe to French boarding axes of 18th century, though the head is smaller. There really arent many resources on these in any depth, but my search was limited. I couldnt find references on English Civil War forces using battle axes, but certainly that does not mean they could not have been used, just not documented among the regularly employed weapons.

4th December 2012, 01:06 AM	#1
PClemente Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 42	Horseman's 16th century Battle Axe Hi All, I am posting pictures of a 16th century horseman's battle axe for comment and observations. I am also trying to educate myself on such weapons and find there is little literature specifically on the horseman's axe. I was wondering when such weapons were in use and how late they were used on European battlefields (I have seen a contemporary picture of Prince Rupert carrying an axe during the English Civil War, and read accounts of Thirty Years War curriasseurs sometimes utilizing them as secondary arms). As always thanks for your insight! Regards, P Attached Images

4th December 2012, 05:35 PM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi P, Nice axe you got there . Have you started by the easiest method? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_axe Sure there is some information on this subject here in the forum; trouble is to find it . Maybe some of the members chime in with some input

4th December 2012, 06:58 PM	#3
A Senefelder Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 214	Axes continued in use in the eastern Europe for longer than the west but were used in the west into the 17th century. As full plate armour become fully developed twords the end of the 14th century wespons better suited to damaging/breaking it were needed. Simply put while a sword is great against soft targets you cannot cut your way through plate with it ( in fact both the Italian and German longsword schools developed techniques relying priciply on the point of the sword for dealing with armoured opponents as the edge of the sword was of limited effectiveness ). This cause the hammer, the mace and the axe to become of more importance. While an axe has a sharp cutting edge it is a small surface area, unlike the long blade of a sword, which makes it much more effective in transmitting force against a hard target as the force cannot spread out anywhere near as far on an axe blade as on that of a sword so it allowed an axe to be used against sort targets for cutting but also against hard targets as more of an impact weapon like a hammer or mace. Equipping it with a fluke or back spike which could punch a hole through plate armour and you had an effective weapon against hard targets and soft.

4th December 2012, 07:25 PM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	So good that you came in, A Senefelder Surely this transmission of knowledge contributes with a great added value to the forum

5th December 2012, 12:14 AM	#5
PClemente Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 42	Many thanks for the input gents. Any guess as to regional origin of the axe? I have seen another axe with a wooden haft featuring nails down the length, but the axe itself seemed distinctly Italian in form, as opposed to this axe which appears more Germanic(?). Also, is there anyway to tell if the haft is the original or at least period, as opposed to a later addition? Thanks again!

5th December 2012, 03:17 AM	#6
A Senefelder Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 214	For what its worth and strictly my opinion, this particular axe feels a little Eastern European to me. The transition to all steel construction of war axes and hammers was in full swing in the 16th century ( and had more or less already transitioned in mace construction by the end of the 15th century ) hardwood hafts for all three remained popular in the east right into the early 18th century ( not that all steel construction couldn't be found in the east but hardwood construction was just as common as all steel construction became more of less the rule in the west by the 17th century ).

5th December 2012, 06:35 AM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,956	This is far outside my normal fields, but this is an interesting looking axe, and I will say my thoughts corresponded with Alan with the East European feel. Actually I was thinking of the one in the saddle of 'The Polish Rider' by Rembrandt, probably because of the spiked poll. In looking further into that, what the 'rider' is actually carrying is a 'nadziak' which is actually a war hammer rather than axe, and this is clearly not a 'war hammer'. I cannot resist noting the similarity of this axe to French boarding axes of 18th century, though the head is smaller. There really arent many resources on these in any depth, but my search was limited. I couldnt find references on English Civil War forces using battle axes, but certainly that does not mean they could not have been used, just not documented among the regularly employed weapons.