ARABIAN SPEARS-HAS ANYONE SEEN THESE?

kahnjar1 · 8th December 2010, 06:53 AM

In his book Arms and Armour of Arabia, Elgood illustrates spears used on the Arabian Peninsula. Has anyone seen these, or better still actually got any in their collection? We see many spears on the Forum, from Africa, and other places, but I do not recall ever seeing any described as being from Arabia.

thinreadline · 8th December 2010, 11:54 AM

The problem is that he doesnt provide any clear illustrations, one hazy photo and one somewhat indistinct painting . The descriptions in many cases are very detailed but each seems to describe something completely different . References to lances up to 25 feet long seem astonishing and a bit unlikely to me .. what would be the point ( forgive the pun ) of such an unwieldy weapon . However I have been inspired by your post to check through my lances / spears to see if any match any of the descriptions .

A.alnakkas · 8th December 2010, 01:18 PM

hello gents!

http://www.geh.org/ar/strip63/m198803560014.jpg can this help?

this maybe http://hbfimmigrants.proboards.com/i...int&thread=103

Nathaniel · 9th December 2010, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

hello gents!

http://www.geh.org/ar/strip63/m198803560014.jpg can this help?

this maybe http://hbfimmigrants.proboards.com/i...int&thread=103

Fantastic collection of old photos!!! It's wonderful to see. Thanks for sharing!!!

kahnjar1 · 9th December 2010, 05:32 AM

Sorry my mistake as to source. Not Elgood, but from an exhibition at the King Faisal Center in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. Pic attached describes the spears as being called SHILFA and from the Najd Region of Saudi Arabia.
Mounting is described as bamboo sticks.
..................so I guess the original question remains. Has anyone seen these or have any in their collection?
Thanks to those who have replied re the Lance, but not quite what I was trying to find out about, though interesting just the same.
Regards Stu

Steve · 12th December 2010, 04:41 AM

Stu,
I've attached some additional photos of Bedouin spears, although they look more like a lance to me.
As previously mentioned it appears bamboo is the preferred haft.
The caption for the photo of the spear head by itself says that " this is not typical, most spear points are more conical and elongated in form". From the other illustrations I guess he is saying that the bedouin spear head usually has a long metal cyclinder running from it into the haft.
This may be a means of identifying these spears. I'm not a spear man but it could be useful information.
Steve

colin henshaw · 25th November 2015, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Sorry my mistake as to source. Not Elgood, but from an exhibition at the King Faisal Center in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. Pic attached describes the spears as being called SHILFA and from the Najd Region of Saudi Arabia.
Mounting is described as bamboo sticks.
..................so I guess the original question remains. Has anyone seen these or have any in their collection?
Thanks to those who have replied re the Lance, but not quite what I was trying to find out about, though interesting just the same.
Regards Stu

An observation - I'm fairly sure the blade on the spear at the far right of this image is from Somalia. ie. the image with the red background.

LJ · 27th November 2015, 01:27 PM

In my ignorance, I catalogued this as being from Kafiristan, because of the way the base is 'stepped' - which looks similar to a Kafiri dagger. So, now I know better !

Unfortunately, the wooden shaft is not original, it looks like it has been put on by a collector.

Is there any definite information about the distribution of these spears in Saudi Arabia ?

estcrh · 27th November 2015, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LJ

In my ignorance, I catalogued this as being from Kafiristan, because of the way the base is 'stepped' - which looks similar to a Kafiri dagger. So, now I know better !

Unfortunately, the wooden shaft is not original, it looks like it has been put on by a collector.

Is there any definite information about the distribution of these spears in Saudi Arabia ?

Another nice example. If these are mainly a bedouin weapon then distribution would have been much wider than just Saudi Arabia, I believe that the bedouin were all over the Middle East/North Africa.

rickystl · 27th November 2015, 04:17 PM

Estcrh: You are the gift that keeps on giving!! LOL

Thank you. Great pic!!
Rick.

estcrh · 27th November 2015, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickystl

Estcrh: You are the gift that keeps on giving!! LOL

Thank you. Great pic!!
Rick.

Rick, one more, have you seen this one?

Richard G · 28th November 2015, 03:30 PM

I would surmise that the extreme length of these spears accounts for their rarity these days. If you no longer have a use for one it would be nothing but a liability. Even todays collectors who would dearly love tp possess one might have difficulty accomodating a 25 ft spear.
Regards
Richard

Kubur · 28th November 2015, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estcrh

Rick, one more, have you seen this one?

Estcrh
Your photographs are amazing!!Thanks

kronckew · 2nd December 2015, 01:27 AM

on a historical note, these were in serious use at least until 1902:

Riyadh-Al-Bathaa-Masmak-Fortress...This was the citadel in the heart of Old Riyadh that King Abdul Aziz took in January 1902 to regain control of the city. During the raid one of the future king's companions heaved a spear at the door with such force that the head is still lodged in the doorway ... The fortress is built of dried mud. It is now used as a museum honouring Abdul Aziz.

i've seen it, sadly the tip broke off & remains in the door. the rest of the lance & head is elsewhere, didn't see it. i had no time to tour the fort as i had to pick up my re-entry visa for the UK & catch a plane back to dammam.

the fort & the door: spearpoint is just right of the X brace on the sally door inset in the main gate door itself. :

broadaxe · 1st December 2015, 07:54 PM

The Bedouin lance/spear is regarded as 'holy grail' by collectors of Arabian weapons in Israel. Yes, they were widespread in all the Middle East. The group photo with three people was taken south to Jerusalem - it is quite famous, I have a framed print. The horseman with the very long lance was photographed with the Jordan river behind him, Beit-She'an area.
The photo here is from a public collections, with firm references, 2ft long.

estcrh · 2nd December 2015, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by broadaxe

The photo here is from a public collections, with firm references, 2ft long.

A little bit diferent than the others shown here.

8th December 2010, 06:53 AM	#1
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,739	ARABIAN SPEARS-HAS ANYONE SEEN THESE? In his book Arms and Armour of Arabia, Elgood illustrates spears used on the Arabian Peninsula. Has anyone seen these, or better still actually got any in their collection? We see many spears on the Forum, from Africa, and other places, but I do not recall ever seeing any described as being from Arabia.

8th December 2010, 11:54 AM	#2
thinreadline Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Wirral Posts: 1,204	Arabian lances The problem is that he doesnt provide any clear illustrations, one hazy photo and one somewhat indistinct painting . The descriptions in many cases are very detailed but each seems to describe something completely different . References to lances up to 25 feet long seem astonishing and a bit unlikely to me .. what would be the point ( forgive the pun ) of such an unwieldy weapon . However I have been inspired by your post to check through my lances / spears to see if any match any of the descriptions .

9th December 2010, 05:32 AM	#5
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,739	Sorry my mistake as to source. Not Elgood, but from an exhibition at the King Faisal Center in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. Pic attached describes the spears as being called SHILFA and from the Najd Region of Saudi Arabia. Mounting is described as bamboo sticks. ..................so I guess the original question remains. Has anyone seen these or have any in their collection? Thanks to those who have replied re the Lance, but not quite what I was trying to find out about, though interesting just the same. Regards Stu Attached Images

12th December 2010, 04:41 AM	#6
Steve Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Sydney Posts: 58	Stu, I've attached some additional photos of Bedouin spears, although they look more like a lance to me. As previously mentioned it appears bamboo is the preferred haft. The caption for the photo of the spear head by itself says that " this is not typical, most spear points are more conical and elongated in form". From the other illustrations I guess he is saying that the bedouin spear head usually has a long metal cyclinder running from it into the haft. This may be a means of identifying these spears. I'm not a spear man but it could be useful information. Steve Attached Images

27th November 2015, 01:27 PM	#8
LJ Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 93	In my ignorance, I catalogued this as being from Kafiristan, because of the way the base is 'stepped' - which looks similar to a Kafiri dagger. So, now I know better ! Unfortunately, the wooden shaft is not original, it looks like it has been put on by a collector. Is there any definite information about the distribution of these spears in Saudi Arabia ? Attached Images

8th December 2010, 01:18 PM	#3
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	hello gents! http://www.geh.org/ar/strip63/m198803560014.jpg can this help? this maybe http://hbfimmigrants.proboards.com/i...int&thread=103

27th November 2015, 04:17 PM	#10
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Estcrh: You are the gift that keeps on giving!! LOL Thank you. Great pic!! Rick.

28th November 2015, 03:30 PM	#12
Richard G Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 406	I would surmise that the extreme length of these spears accounts for their rarity these days. If you no longer have a use for one it would be nothing but a liability. Even todays collectors who would dearly love tp possess one might have difficulty accomodating a 25 ft spear. Regards Richard

2nd December 2015, 01:27 AM	#14
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	on a historical note, these were in serious use at least until 1902: Riyadh-Al-Bathaa-Masmak-Fortress...This was the citadel in the heart of Old Riyadh that King Abdul Aziz took in January 1902 to regain control of the city. During the raid one of the future king's companions heaved a spear at the door with such force that the head is still lodged in the doorway ... The fortress is built of dried mud. It is now used as a museum honouring Abdul Aziz. i've seen it, sadly the tip broke off & remains in the door. the rest of the lance & head is elsewhere, didn't see it. i had no time to tour the fort as i had to pick up my re-entry visa for the UK & catch a plane back to dammam. the fort & the door: spearpoint is just right of the X brace on the sally door inset in the main gate door itself. : Attached Images Last edited by kronckew; 2nd December 2015 at 01:45 AM.

1st December 2015, 07:54 PM	#15
broadaxe Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 332	The Bedouin lance/spear is regarded as 'holy grail' by collectors of Arabian weapons in Israel. Yes, they were widespread in all the Middle East. The group photo with three people was taken south to Jerusalem - it is quite famous, I have a framed print. The horseman with the very long lance was photographed with the Jordan river behind him, Beit-She'an area. The photo here is from a public collections, with firm references, 2ft long. Attached Images