Andrea Ferrara blades

Jim McDougall · 19th June 2008, 10:23 PM

Recent interest in Andrea Ferrara blades recalls our previous thread on early makers trade marks, and noting that while this name (or marking) appears most on Scottish baskethilt blades, some have been found mounted elsewhere. Some have appeared on Moroccan 'nimchas' as well as on Indian tulwars.

The 'Andrea Ferrara' mystery has often reappeared with the main question being was there really such a maker? if he actually existed, was he the one listed in Belluno, Venetia in the late 16th c. or has appeared in a recent query posted elsewhere, a Spanish smith who killed an apprentice caught spying on him as he was at work on a blade. The secrets of the swordsmith were of course mysterious and guarded, and one reference to this account ("Scottish Swords and Dirks", John Wallace, 1970, p.25) . Ferrara then supposedly fled to Scotland where he joined the court of James V and began a workshop.

It is generally agreed that the 'ANDREA FERRARA' mark was consistant and apparantly quite significant on the blades of Scottish swords, but these are of 17th to 18th century blades, which are certainly from German workshops. Therefore, it seems clear that these blades carry this name more likely in the sense of quality or talismanic significance, since the named person whether Italian or Spanish, lived over a century before most of these blades were made.
Though most Italian swordsmiths have been researched to the point of even finding thier original working locations ("Armi Bianche Italiene" Boccia & Coelho) none have been found for the oft mentioned Andrea Ferrara nor his brother Donato. For an Italian maker to go to Spain however, would not be surprising with Spain's provincial occupation there.

The dramatically crafted tale of the mysterious and elusive swordsmith who kills an apprentice and flees to Scotland, where presumably his blades are well sought after, seems clearly in line with many such colorful stories in weapons folklore. It is generally held today, as proposed by a number of the venerable arms writers, that 'ANDREA FERRARA' may well be an applied term suggesting the quality of the blade (ferara = lat. ferrous=iron; andrew= a colloquial expression of the time equiv. to true, honest). It is suggested since these blades are clearly German, and the marketing acumen of these makers is well known, that other famed makers names may have been applied to blade forms in this manner also, i.e. Ayala on rapier blades, Sahagun on backsword or SE sabre blades.

Obviously, this topic has been discussed here and elsewhere a number of times over the years, and by search, these can easily be found. However I just wanted to rewrite a synopsis of some of my notes for future reference, and as always, hoping for comments, observations and especially any new material that would be pertinant.

Lew · 19th June 2008, 11:06 PM

Jim

Here is one to start off with

. Fernando you have a good eye

It's still hanging on the wall in my museum room as my wife calls it

Lew

A nice anchor

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is one the most incisive and well punctioned anchors i have seen. I picked it from the Internet, October last year, and i deeply regret i didn't register its provenance ...most probably a selling site. All i ( surely) know is that it was struck on a boy's kaskara, .
Perfect, isn't it?
( I hope i am not exagerating )
Fernando

katana · 19th June 2008, 11:57 PM

Hi Jim

,

thinking outside the box, I wondered about the connotations of the name Andrea Ferrara .

Andrea, is an Italian 'form' of Andrew (the patron saint of Scotland from the middle of the 10th Century)

"...According to legend, in 832 A.D. King Óengus (II) (or King Angus) led the Picts and Scots in battle against the Angles under a king named Athelstan near modern-day Athelstaneford in East Lothian. King Angus and his men were surrounded and he prayed for deliverance. During the night Saint Andrew, who was martyred on a saltire cross, appeared to Angus and assured him of victory. On the following morning a white saltire against the background of a blue sky appeared to both sides. The Picts and Scots were heartened by this, but the Angles lost confidence and were defeated. This saltire design has been the Scottish flag ever since....."

FERRO is Italian for "iron" , could Ferrara be a mis-spelling (Italian) of "iron ***"
You have mentioned that Scotish blades or re-hilted Scots blades tend to have this 'name', perhaps it is Talismatic, perhaps it meant something like

(St) Andrew ( bringer of victory) iron (????)

Bearing in mind the Scots were predominately Catholic ....Latin or Italian wording may have been believed to be more 'powerful' ?

I told you it was 'outside the box'

Regards David

Jim McDougall · 20th June 2008, 12:35 AM

Thank you so much guys!!!!

Lew, right on! I remember that excellent kaskara, unusual with a distinct trade blade, unusual fullering. It seems that for some time, old kaskara blades ended up in England joined with medieval styled hilts to be passed of as weapons of the Crusades (Oakeshott).
Fernando does indeed have an incredible eye for great pieces, and this one is a very good example.

David, again well thought out! and outside the box

which is the best place to be in trying to really get perspective on many of these great old edged weapon mysteries. Good observation on Andrew (lat./Ital. =Andrea) and the note on St.Andrew, of course Scotland's patron saint.
Your deductive reasoning is great, and much appreciated.

Thanks again for getting this one goin' !!

Very best regards,
Jim

katana · 20th June 2008, 04:48 PM

Jim,
continuing along the idea of 'Andrea Ferrara' being a slogan, trademark etc

'Playing' on Babelfish (translation website)

FERRO ARRA translates to IRON EARNEST (Earnest iron ??) (in Italian)

Dictionary meaning of 'Earnest'... http://ardictionary.com/Earnest

Includes ...
Something of value given by the buyer to the seller, by way of token or pledge,

A trademark ?

As a name Andrea (Andrew) means 'manly'.

Regards David

Rick · 20th June 2008, 05:04 PM

Great line of thinking David .

'Serious Iron' , kind of like 'Pure Steel' as is sometimes seen on some Indian pieces .

dominic grant · 26th June 2008, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katana

Jim,
continuing along the idea of 'Andrea Ferrara' being a slogan, trademark

FERRO ARRA translates to IRON EARNEST (Earnest iron ??) (in Italian)

Dictionary meaning of 'Earnest'... http://ardictionary.com/Earnest

Includes ...
Something of value given by the buyer to the seller, by way of token or pledge
As a name Andrea (Andrew) means 'manly'.

Regards David

You can also have Andrew meaning TRUE and Ferrara a bastardisation of frerrous = IRON

TRUE IRON

19th June 2008, 10:23 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,954	Andrea Ferrara blades Recent interest in Andrea Ferrara blades recalls our previous thread on early makers trade marks, and noting that while this name (or marking) appears most on Scottish baskethilt blades, some have been found mounted elsewhere. Some have appeared on Moroccan 'nimchas' as well as on Indian tulwars. The 'Andrea Ferrara' mystery has often reappeared with the main question being was there really such a maker? if he actually existed, was he the one listed in Belluno, Venetia in the late 16th c. or has appeared in a recent query posted elsewhere, a Spanish smith who killed an apprentice caught spying on him as he was at work on a blade. The secrets of the swordsmith were of course mysterious and guarded, and one reference to this account ("Scottish Swords and Dirks", John Wallace, 1970, p.25) . Ferrara then supposedly fled to Scotland where he joined the court of James V and began a workshop. It is generally agreed that the 'ANDREA FERRARA' mark was consistant and apparantly quite significant on the blades of Scottish swords, but these are of 17th to 18th century blades, which are certainly from German workshops. Therefore, it seems clear that these blades carry this name more likely in the sense of quality or talismanic significance, since the named person whether Italian or Spanish, lived over a century before most of these blades were made. Though most Italian swordsmiths have been researched to the point of even finding thier original working locations ("Armi Bianche Italiene" Boccia & Coelho) none have been found for the oft mentioned Andrea Ferrara nor his brother Donato. For an Italian maker to go to Spain however, would not be surprising with Spain's provincial occupation there. The dramatically crafted tale of the mysterious and elusive swordsmith who kills an apprentice and flees to Scotland, where presumably his blades are well sought after, seems clearly in line with many such colorful stories in weapons folklore. It is generally held today, as proposed by a number of the venerable arms writers, that 'ANDREA FERRARA' may well be an applied term suggesting the quality of the blade (ferara = lat. ferrous=iron; andrew= a colloquial expression of the time equiv. to true, honest). It is suggested since these blades are clearly German, and the marketing acumen of these makers is well known, that other famed makers names may have been applied to blade forms in this manner also, i.e. Ayala on rapier blades, Sahagun on backsword or SE sabre blades. Obviously, this topic has been discussed here and elsewhere a number of times over the years, and by search, these can easily be found. However I just wanted to rewrite a synopsis of some of my notes for future reference, and as always, hoping for comments, observations and especially any new material that would be pertinant. Last edited by Jim McDougall; 20th June 2008 at 12:37 AM. Reason: wording

19th June 2008, 11:06 PM	#2
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Jim Here is one to start off with . Fernando you have a good eye It's still hanging on the wall in my museum room as my wife calls it Lew A nice anchor -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is one the most incisive and well punctioned anchors i have seen. I picked it from the Internet, October last year, and i deeply regret i didn't register its provenance ...most probably a selling site. All i ( surely) know is that it was struck on a boy's kaskara, . Perfect, isn't it? ( I hope i am not exagerating ) Fernando Attached Images

19th June 2008, 11:57 PM	#3
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi Jim , thinking outside the box, I wondered about the connotations of the name Andrea Ferrara . Andrea, is an Italian 'form' of Andrew (the patron saint of Scotland from the middle of the 10th Century) "...According to legend, in 832 A.D. King Óengus (II) (or King Angus) led the Picts and Scots in battle against the Angles under a king named Athelstan near modern-day Athelstaneford in East Lothian. King Angus and his men were surrounded and he prayed for deliverance. During the night Saint Andrew, who was martyred on a saltire cross, appeared to Angus and assured him of victory. On the following morning a white saltire against the background of a blue sky appeared to both sides. The Picts and Scots were heartened by this, but the Angles lost confidence and were defeated. This saltire design has been the Scottish flag ever since....." FERRO is Italian for "iron" , could Ferrara be a mis-spelling (Italian) of "iron ***" You have mentioned that Scotish blades or re-hilted Scots blades tend to have this 'name', perhaps it is Talismatic, perhaps it meant something like (St) Andrew ( bringer of victory) iron (????) Bearing in mind the Scots were predominately Catholic ....Latin or Italian wording may have been believed to be more 'powerful' ? I told you it was 'outside the box' Regards David

20th June 2008, 12:35 AM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,954	Thank you so much guys!!!! Lew, right on! I remember that excellent kaskara, unusual with a distinct trade blade, unusual fullering. It seems that for some time, old kaskara blades ended up in England joined with medieval styled hilts to be passed of as weapons of the Crusades (Oakeshott). Fernando does indeed have an incredible eye for great pieces, and this one is a very good example. David, again well thought out! and outside the box which is the best place to be in trying to really get perspective on many of these great old edged weapon mysteries. Good observation on Andrew (lat./Ital. =Andrea) and the note on St.Andrew, of course Scotland's patron saint. Your deductive reasoning is great, and much appreciated. Thanks again for getting this one goin' !! Very best regards, Jim

20th June 2008, 04:48 PM	#5
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Jim, continuing along the idea of 'Andrea Ferrara' being a slogan, trademark etc 'Playing' on Babelfish (translation website) FERRO ARRA translates to IRON EARNEST (Earnest iron ??) (in Italian) Dictionary meaning of 'Earnest'... http://ardictionary.com/Earnest Includes ... Something of value given by the buyer to the seller, by way of token or pledge, A trademark ? As a name Andrea (Andrew) means 'manly'. Regards David

20th June 2008, 05:04 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Great line of thinking David . 'Serious Iron' , kind of like 'Pure Steel' as is sometimes seen on some Indian pieces .