Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Keris Warung Kopi
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 26th November 2014, 05:54 AM   #1
Spunjer
Member
 
Spunjer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Witness Protection Program
Posts: 1,730
Default Bugis Keris

here's my first bugis keris. the handle is ivory, and i believe the mendak is gold, but i haven't had it tested yet. i do love the pattern on the scabbard, and i realize it needs some cleaning. as far as the blade, it needs to be stain (i think), but after reading Alan's link on a previous post, i think i'll leave that alone. i would love to hear everyone comments on this particular keris, though!
Attached Images
      
Spunjer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th November 2014, 09:34 AM   #2
Jean
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,740
Default

Very nice and rare ivory hilt, the scabbard does not look very old but I could be wrong (check inside the slot), the blade with strong gusen (bevels) on the edges has an odd ganja (iras?) but which seems original. From the pics the selut seems to be from brass but again I can be mistaken. A very good kris anyway, congratulations!
Regards
Jean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th November 2014, 12:54 PM   #3
Spunjer
Member
 
Spunjer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Witness Protection Program
Posts: 1,730
Default

thanks for the comment, Jean! my apologies on the terminologies. so what's the difference between a selut and a mendak? nevertheless, i will have it tested.
i looked inside the scabbard and it appears to be older: uniform dark patina all the way as far as i can see.
Spunjer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th November 2014, 01:56 PM   #4
Jean
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,740
Default

The selut (javanese term) or pedongkok (Sumatra/ Malay term) is the cup inserting the base of the hilt while the mendak is the conical piece inserted between a javanese hilt and the blade.
Regards
Jean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th November 2014, 07:49 PM   #5
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,794
Default

Hi Ron,

agree, very nice keris. I could be wrong but I think that your keris coming from North Sumatra, maybe Gayo. The scabbard missing maybe it's foot.

Regards,
Detlef
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th November 2014, 02:27 AM   #6
Spunjer
Member
 
Spunjer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Witness Protection Program
Posts: 1,730
Default

thanks for the comment, Detlef! that was my initial thought, that the foot (buntut?) was missing, but upon closer look, the patina is uniform throughout with no sign of having anything attached to it. of course there's a possibility that it might have one at certain point, but if it did, it must have came off early in its life.
Spunjer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th November 2014, 11:27 PM   #7
kai
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,254
Thumbs up

Hello Ron,

Congrats, a really nice keris!

While the blade is obviously influenced by "Bugis" style, the flow of lines does not seem to support an origin from Sulawesi; it does look Sumatran/Malay to me.

The gorgeous hilt is special and may be an unique one-off - at least I haven't seen any that seem to be related or with similar features. The star-like decoration at the base is carved differently from what is usually associated with Gayo and possibly neighboring highland areas. (The pendokok looks also brass/bronze to me.)

The scabbard is of an old type associated with central coastal Sumatra and the neighboring Melacca Straits area (Riau archipelago), quite possibly Jambi.

For convenience, I'm attaching a few examples from Gavin's site. Please note the silver buntut in the first example - I believe Ron's keris may have had a similarly worked scabbard tip (if the scars visible in the wood are on both sides, a now lost silver buntut seems very likely IMHO). Also note the wood which is very similar.

Regards,
Kai
Attached Images
    
kai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st December 2014, 02:37 PM   #8
Jean
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,740
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kai
Hello Ron,

While the blade is obviously influenced by "Bugis" style, the flow of lines does not seem to support an origin from Sulawesi; it does look Sumatran/Malay to me.

Kai
Hello Kai,
I agree with you, another point is that to my best knowledge these wide bevels are never (or at least very rarely) seen on Sulawesi Bugis blades, for instance this ricikan is not mentioned in the reference book "Senjata Pusaka Bugis" and none of the blades shown in the book includes this feature. This type of odd ganja is not commonly used in Sulawesi as well.
Regards
Jean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st December 2014, 10:29 PM   #9
A. G. Maisey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,897
Default

I'm having a little bit of difficulty in understanding exactly where this discussion is going, and I would appreciate it if somebody could clarify for me the following:-

1) Do we accept that the designation of "Bugis", as applied to a keris blade, and to keris dress, refers to a style of blade that is associated with the Bugis people?

2) Do we accept that the diaspora of the Bugis people, which began in the 17th century, and continues until today, has seen the spread of Bugis cultural style and values, as well as Bugis genetic inheritance, to areas far removed from the homeland of the Bugis people in South West Sulawesi?

3) Do we accept that the characteristics displayed in items of material culture originating from a common cultural source can vary for many reasons ?

4) Do we accept that the existence of the dominant characteristics of any item of material culture determine the culture to which that item is to be assigned?

5) Do we agree that the designation of "Bugis" when applied to a keris blade is a cultural, rather than a geographic classification?

If we are in agreement in respect of the above, then there can be no doubt at all that the keris under discussion here is a Bugis keris.

My opinion is that this is not a Bugis "influenced" keris, nor is it a keris of Bugis "style".

It is a Bugis keris.

However there are several questions that remain unanswered:-

A) What is the geographic point of origin of the various components of this complete keris?

B) Is there a possibility that the peculiarities noted in the fabrication of the blade are the result of a blade revision?

C) If the response to B) is that this conjecture is a possibility, then where & when was this revision carried out?

The more I look at the images of this keris, the more I feel that I am looking at a marriage.

Is there the possibility that the edges of this blade were filed or ground to remove imperfections, and when this work was done, the width of the gusen increased?

If I look closely at the texture of the face of the blade and I compare it with the texture of the bevels of the blade, these bevels do not seem to share the same texture as is found on the face of the blade.

During my life I have handled thousands of keris of all types.

I have never seen a keris with a separately made gonjo that has been permanently fixed to the body of the blade.

There is a possibility that that this permanent fixture of the gonjo was the result of one man's idea for improvement, either the maker, or the man who placed the order with the maker, or some later owner.

When I consider all the questionable aspects of this complete keris, my present feeling is that this is a marriage that took place far away from the geographic point of origin of any of the components of this complete keris.
A. G. Maisey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd December 2014, 11:09 PM   #10
kai
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,254
Post

Hello Alan,

Quote:
1) Do we accept that the designation of "Bugis", as applied to a keris blade, and to keris dress, refers to a style of blade that is associated with the Bugis people?
Yup, peoples originating in SW Sulawesi: Bugis, Makassarese, etc. (Not including the Toraja from central Sulawesi, of course.)


Quote:
2) Do we accept that the diaspora of the Bugis people, which began in the 17th century, and continues until today, has seen the spread of Bugis cultural style and values, as well as Bugis genetic inheritance, to areas far removed from the homeland of the Bugis people in South West Sulawesi?
Yep.


Quote:
3) Do we accept that the characteristics displayed in items of material culture originating from a common cultural source can vary for many reasons ?
Sure.

Quote:
4) Do we accept that the existence of the dominant characteristics of any item of material culture determine the culture to which that item is to be assigned?
Define dominant and Bugis...


Quote:
5) Do we agree that the designation of "Bugis" when applied to a keris blade is a cultural, rather than a geographic classification?
Yes. However, once cultures start to mix, the "pure" origin is lost and it may be preferable to speak of influences, cross-over styles, etc.


Quote:
If we are in agreement in respect of the above, then there can be no doubt at all that the keris under discussion here is a Bugis keris.

My opinion is that this is not a Bugis "influenced" keris, nor is it a keris of Bugis "style".

It is a Bugis keris.
From an outside position this is an understandable POV. From what I understand from insiders of the main diaspora areas (southern Malay peninsula and Melacca Straits archipelago including ports of eastern Sumatra), there often is a clear difference of a "pure Bugis" blade as found in SW Sulawesi (and also often as trade blade or gift in other SEA areas) and blades commonly crafted in the Malay diaspora regions (obviously influenced by the SW Sulawesi style but with a different flow of lines due to added influences from other keris cultures). Even Bugis descendants in these diasporas seem to agree with this notion. Granted, there will have been expat Bugis bladesmiths who followed their traditional style - thus, we can expect to label some blades as Sulawesi style that were crafted elsewhere: it is a cultural definition rather than a strict geographic, indeed.


Quote:
However there are several questions that remain unanswered:-

A) What is the geographic point of origin of the various components of this complete keris?
As posited above, IMHO the scabbard gives the best clue. Moreover, none of the other parts seem to contradict the Straits/Jambi notion. I agree, however, that this is a mere working hypothesis open to discussion/rebuttal considering the pretty unique nature of the components. Unless we find more examples with similar features, that is.


Quote:
B) Is there a possibility that the peculiarities noted in the fabrication of the blade are the result of a blade revision?

C) If the response to B) is that this conjecture is a possibility, then where & when was this revision carried out?
Certainly possible. I don't see a need to invoke any revision though.


Quote:
Is there the possibility that the edges of this blade were filed or ground to remove imperfections, and when this work was done, the width of the gusen increased?

If I look closely at the texture of the face of the blade and I compare it with the texture of the bevels of the blade, these bevels do not seem to share the same texture as is found on the face of the blade.
At the sorsoran area, the corrosion on the face/plateau is somewhat deeper than along the bevels; if you look further down the blade, this difference is much less pronounced. If a keris is kept in polish (with emphasis along the edges) but allowed to develop a topographical etch, this difference seems not too suspicious to me.

I understand that this keris comes from an older collection - Ron, do you know when it was acquired by the former owner?


Quote:
During my life I have handled thousands of keris of all types.

I have never seen a keris with a separately made gonjo that has been permanently fixed to the body of the blade.
Yes, I guessed this being a pretty unique feature. If not done with modern techniques revealing a recent revision, this won't help us much though.


Quote:
There is a possibility that that this permanent fixture of the gonjo was the result of one man's idea for improvement, either the maker, or the man who placed the order with the maker, or some later owner.

When I consider all the questionable aspects of this complete keris, my present feeling is that this is a marriage that took place far away from the geographic point of origin of any of the components of this complete keris.
Certainly a possibility. As is the opposite. I'm keeping an open mind, especially without having examined this keris in person.

What we haven't yet established, is how well the parts fit each other (not that this will allow any conclusive reasoning): Ron, could you please post close-ups showing how well the blade fits the scabbard? Did you (carefully!) tried to remove the hilt?

Regards,
Kai
kai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd December 2014, 11:54 PM   #11
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,127
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kai
Certainly possible. I don't see a need to invoke any revision though.
At the sorsoran area, the corrosion on the face/plateau is somewhat deeper than along the bevels; if you look further down the blade, this difference is much less pronounced. If a keris is kept in polish (with emphasis along the edges) but allowed to develop a topographical etch, this difference seems not too suspicious to me.

I understand that this keris comes from an older collection - Ron, do you know when it was acquired by the former owner?
I agree that while revision is possible, i see no reason to believe this blade has been reshaped at anytime.
I did not see this blade when i visited this collection. Ron was hiding this one from me. But from the looks of the rest of the collection i believe most of these keris were collected some time ago in the late 1960s-80s. Not sure if Ron inquired about collection date from the guy or not, but hopefully he knows more or can ask the guy directly.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.