Cold Steel Naval Dirk: Origin of Design?

Atlantia · 13th October 2010, 07:12 PM

I was looking at a Naval Dirk today, rather beautiful TBH. Was sorely tempted but couldn't place the pattern. Anyway, a search reveals that it is very close to the one below, made by Cold Steel. Couldn't see any makers marks or stamps on it, and if it's a modern piece, its been aged. Anyone know if these reproductions are stamped, and if they are in fact based on an original pattern, or just loosely based on the British.

kronckew · 13th October 2010, 07:23 PM

early dirk: came in a variety of styles.

don't think cold steel ones are stamped, tho someone could etch or stamp afterwards.

the photo of the other side is also unstamped.

more standardised victorian dirks looked like this one, 1891 pattern. widely reproduced - may even still be in production. earlier one looked a lot like this (1879 pattern is nearly identical)

Atlantia · 13th October 2010, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

early dirk: came in a variety of styles.

don't think cold steel ones are stamped, tho someone could etch or stamp afterwards.

more standardised victorian dirks looked like this one, 1891 pattern. widely reproduced - may even still be in production.

Hi Mate,
This one definately looks like the Cold Steel one. Wondered how to be sure its not a modern one aged up is all. No stamps of any kind on it that I could see. definately dark horn grips, never wire bound.
Hmmmm.
Not somewhere where I could really take pictures.

Dmitry · 13th October 2010, 07:51 PM

This what the dirk on the first photo is based upon, a popular form from the mid-1790s to ca.1810.
Sometimes there is 'cigar band' around the waist of the grip, which is engraved with a fouled anchor, which, understandably, adds a factor of desirability to collectors.
Both pieces are in my collection.

Atlantia · 13th October 2010, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmitry

This what the dirk on the first photo is based upon, a popular form from the mid-1790s to ca.1810.
Sometimes there is 'cigar band' around the waist of the grip, which is engraved with a fouled anchor, which, understandably, adds a factor of desirability to collectors.
Both pieces are in my collection.

Thats a beauty Dmitry! (5 Ball to match the sword?)
Any with smooth horn grips that you know of?

Dmitry · 13th October 2010, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Thats a beauty Dmitry! (5 Ball to match the sword?)
Any with smooth horn grips that you know of?

Not horn, but ebony. Horn wasn't used much, if at all, by the English,for grips on their swords and dirks, at least during the Napoleonic period.
As a matter of fact, ebony-gripped dirks are rarer than the bone/ivory ones.

Atlantia · 13th October 2010, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmitry

Not horn, but ebony. Horn wasn't used much, if at all, by the English,for grips on their swords and dirks, at least during the Napoleonic period.
As a matter of fact, ebony-gripped dirks are rarer than the bone/ivory ones.

Hi Dmitry,
Thanks for the help. Thats the thing, this definately had horn grips.
Hmmm.

Norman McCormick · 13th October 2010, 08:09 PM

Seems quite a generic style, here's a couple of Russian dirks separated by more than a century.
Regards,
Norman.

Dmitry · 13th October 2010, 08:47 PM

The two dirks that Norman has posted are -
1.Soviet Model 1944 officer's dirk
and its predecessor.,
2.Russian Imperial Model 1803 naval officer's dirk.
The latter one was a regulation pattern, based on the period British examples, and similar to the one I posted above.
Funny enough, there was no regulation pattern British naval dirks until 1856, but other countries copied the popular British designs from the earlier times, and made them Pattern long before the Royal Navy got to pattern theirs.

Atlantia · 13th October 2010, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Seems quite a generic style, here's a couple of Russian dirks separated by more than a century.
Regards,
Norman.

Hi Norman,
No markings on this one.... at all. But thats the general shape. They yours?

Dmitry · 13th October 2010, 10:51 PM

Take a picture, if you can. We'll see what you got. I love looking at the old dirks.

Atlantia · 13th October 2010, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmitry

Take a picture, if you can. We'll see what you got. I love looking at the old dirks.

Its not mine, I saw it today (a dealer) didn't have a camera and don't think he'd have been agreeable to me taking pictures anyway.
I'll try and gop back (now armed with more of an idea) and have another look in a few days.

Norman McCormick · 13th October 2010, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Hi Norman,
No markings on this one.... at all. But thats the general shape. They yours?

Hi Gene,
Unfortunately not.
My Regards,
Norman.

Atlantia · 16th October 2010, 09:11 PM

Well I checked it today and compared it to the cold-steel dirk.
It is one, for sure.
Dirtied and deliberately aged.
Looked good too!

Dmitry · 18th October 2010, 05:20 AM

Well, if that's the case I'm glad you didn't buy it! We've all seen this type of thing,aging the repros, quite a bit in the recent years. Most of the time these are quite obvious, but they are getting better every year.
Nevertheless, there are still many good period examples of naval dirks out there, especially in the UK.

13th October 2010, 07:12 PM	#1
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Cold Steel Naval Dirk: Origin of Design? I was looking at a Naval Dirk today, rather beautiful TBH. Was sorely tempted but couldn't place the pattern. Anyway, a search reveals that it is very close to the one below, made by Cold Steel. Couldn't see any makers marks or stamps on it, and if it's a modern piece, its been aged. Anyone know if these reproductions are stamped, and if they are in fact based on an original pattern, or just loosely based on the British.

13th October 2010, 07:23 PM	#2
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,183	early dirk: came in a variety of styles. don't think cold steel ones are stamped, tho someone could etch or stamp afterwards. the photo of the other side is also unstamped. more standardised victorian dirks looked like this one, 1891 pattern. widely reproduced - may even still be in production. earlier one looked a lot like this (1879 pattern is nearly identical) Attached Images Last edited by kronckew; 13th October 2010 at 07:54 PM.

13th October 2010, 07:51 PM	#4
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	This what the dirk on the first photo is based upon, a popular form from the mid-1790s to ca.1810. Sometimes there is 'cigar band' around the waist of the grip, which is engraved with a fouled anchor, which, understandably, adds a factor of desirability to collectors. Both pieces are in my collection. Attached Images

13th October 2010, 08:09 PM	#8
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,597	Seems quite a generic style, here's a couple of Russian dirks separated by more than a century. Regards, Norman. Attached Images

13th October 2010, 08:47 PM	#9
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	The two dirks that Norman has posted are - 1.Soviet Model 1944 officer's dirk and its predecessor., 2.Russian Imperial Model 1803 naval officer's dirk. The latter one was a regulation pattern, based on the period British examples, and similar to the one I posted above. Funny enough, there was no regulation pattern British naval dirks until 1856, but other countries copied the popular British designs from the earlier times, and made them Pattern long before the Royal Navy got to pattern theirs.

13th October 2010, 10:51 PM	#11
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	Take a picture, if you can. We'll see what you got. I love looking at the old dirks.

16th October 2010, 09:11 PM	#14
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Well I checked it today and compared it to the cold-steel dirk. It is one, for sure. Dirtied and deliberately aged. Looked good too!

18th October 2010, 05:20 AM	#15
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	Well, if that's the case I'm glad you didn't buy it! We've all seen this type of thing,aging the repros, quite a bit in the recent years. Most of the time these are quite obvious, but they are getting better every year. Nevertheless, there are still many good period examples of naval dirks out there, especially in the UK.