African (?) saber - help needed

Rather · 7th September 2006, 08:33 AM

I have a chance to buy this sabre. It looks like a marriage of an European blade with Arabic inscription and scabbard and decoration of haft from Northern Africa. Have no Idea whether it is original or a fake. Any ideas about origin and age?

Freddy · 7th September 2006, 09:17 AM

Very nice sword ! Good find.

I found in 'African Arms and Armour' by Christopher Spring a description of similar swords. These come from Ethiopia (Northern and Central Highlands). This is what he writes :

"... Swords were usually exceptionally longbladed, especially among the infantry, and designed principally for slashing rather than thrusting, the latter function being performed by the shorter spears carried by both infantry and cavalry. They were almost invariably worn on the right hip, presumably because the large, elaborately decorated shields which were carried on the left arm would otherwise have impeded the draw of such long and unwieldy blades. Three main types of long sword may be distinguished, the first having a slightly curved blade similar in form to the European cavalry sabre. The large hilts of polished rhinoceros horn or wood are of ovoid cross section, flaring out on either side of the grip and embellished with a button of filigree work. Sometimes a Maria Theresia dollar is employed in place of this button. The single edged blades of these weapons are often found to bear the hallmark of an European weaponsmith. However, the sheaths are almost always of local manufacture, and are highly distinctive. Fashioned out of red leather, sometimes embellished with velvet and decorative bands of metal, these sheaths suddenly rise up at the tip into a slender prow capped with a solid metal sphere or medallion of fine filigree work. ..."

I think your sword comes in this category. The other two types he mentions are the 'shotel', a sword shaped like an enormous sickle, and a straight-bladed sword, similar to the 'kaskara'.

I hope this helps

katana · 7th September 2006, 10:31 AM

Hi Rather, can't add much to what Freddy has already said.... certainly looks to be authentic... I also think it's a nice sword.

Flavio · 7th September 2006, 11:25 AM

Mhmm, it's a strange sword! The scabbard is typical ethiopian, but the handle??? Also the blade is strange: never see before a gurade with an arabic blade. I'd like to ear what Roano thinks.

Rather · 7th September 2006, 11:37 AM

Thank you for your comments! I have the same concern as Flavio. It is also the handle, which worries me a littel bit, especially the S-shaped hand guard. I still have some doubts about the whole thing...

katana · 7th September 2006, 11:43 AM

I must admit that many of the Ethiopian Euro bladed and hilted swords tend to be Cavalry Sabres with knucklebows...... The hilt (handle and pommel) does have a 'Kaskara' look about it.... with the addition of the Arabic script....
Wondering whether this could have been in the Sudan at some point in its life..... assuming the scabbard was the latest addition..... perhaps a 'captured' sword 'adopted' by an Ethiopian...

Bearing in mind the historical conflict between the two areas

Still a nice sword....with.....perhaps, many a tale to tell

Tim Simmons · 7th September 2006, 06:09 PM

I cannot see any reason why not to snap this up and proudly shout your triumph, as long as the price is good

. This may vary in detail from many published examples but these are nonstandard weapons and although said to be Abyssinian were in use in a huge region with Christians, Muslims, and Animists all contributing to the styles of weapons. If you do not buy it, you could give me the nod

.

mross · 7th September 2006, 06:29 PM

I agree with Tim. If the price is not high, buy it now and agonize later.

katana · 8th September 2006, 03:19 PM

I suppose....with a sword such as this...a good indication of it's 'authenticity' is to actually 'wield' it, ..... if it feels 'right'.....and the price is right ....then I would definately take the risk.

I agree that the crossguard looks 'cumbersome', could it be that originally it had a knucklebow, which has been cut down / removed, perhaps due to damage. It might explain why it looks slightly 'odd'.

Rick · 8th September 2006, 04:10 PM

Allow me to swim upstream here and suggest that this might be a Berber sword . The scabbard form fits the Berber pattern quite well . Of course if the script on the blade is amharic(sp?) then the matter is most likely settled.

My feeling is that this may not be Ethiopian.

Flavio · 8th September 2006, 04:51 PM

Hi all, here is a picture from Spring's book: a gurade and an europian saber with ethiopian scabbards.

7th September 2006, 08:33 AM	#1
Rather Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Hamburg, Germany Posts: 72	African (?) saber - help needed I have a chance to buy this sabre. It looks like a marriage of an European blade with Arabic inscription and scabbard and decoration of haft from Northern Africa. Have no Idea whether it is original or a fake. Any ideas about origin and age? Attached Images

7th September 2006, 11:43 AM	#6
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	I must admit that many of the Ethiopian Euro bladed and hilted swords tend to be Cavalry Sabres with knucklebows...... The hilt (handle and pommel) does have a 'Kaskara' look about it.... with the addition of the Arabic script.... Wondering whether this could have been in the Sudan at some point in its life..... assuming the scabbard was the latest addition..... perhaps a 'captured' sword 'adopted' by an Ethiopian... Bearing in mind the historical conflict between the two areas Still a nice sword....with.....perhaps, many a tale to tell Last edited by katana; 7th September 2006 at 11:56 AM.

8th September 2006, 04:51 PM	#11
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hi all, here is a picture from Spring's book: a gurade and an europian saber with ethiopian scabbards. Attached Images

7th September 2006, 09:17 AM	#2
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	Very nice sword ! Good find. I found in 'African Arms and Armour' by Christopher Spring a description of similar swords. These come from Ethiopia (Northern and Central Highlands). This is what he writes : "... Swords were usually exceptionally longbladed, especially among the infantry, and designed principally for slashing rather than thrusting, the latter function being performed by the shorter spears carried by both infantry and cavalry. They were almost invariably worn on the right hip, presumably because the large, elaborately decorated shields which were carried on the left arm would otherwise have impeded the draw of such long and unwieldy blades. Three main types of long sword may be distinguished, the first having a slightly curved blade similar in form to the European cavalry sabre. The large hilts of polished rhinoceros horn or wood are of ovoid cross section, flaring out on either side of the grip and embellished with a button of filigree work. Sometimes a Maria Theresia dollar is employed in place of this button. The single edged blades of these weapons are often found to bear the hallmark of an European weaponsmith. However, the sheaths are almost always of local manufacture, and are highly distinctive. Fashioned out of red leather, sometimes embellished with velvet and decorative bands of metal, these sheaths suddenly rise up at the tip into a slender prow capped with a solid metal sphere or medallion of fine filigree work. ..." I think your sword comes in this category. The other two types he mentions are the 'shotel', a sword shaped like an enormous sickle, and a straight-bladed sword, similar to the 'kaskara'. I hope this helps

7th September 2006, 10:31 AM	#3
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi Rather, can't add much to what Freddy has already said.... certainly looks to be authentic... I also think it's a nice sword.

7th September 2006, 11:25 AM	#4
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Mhmm, it's a strange sword! The scabbard is typical ethiopian, but the handle??? Also the blade is strange: never see before a gurade with an arabic blade. I'd like to ear what Roano thinks.

7th September 2006, 11:37 AM	#5
Rather Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Hamburg, Germany Posts: 72	Thank you for your comments! I have the same concern as Flavio. It is also the handle, which worries me a littel bit, especially the S-shaped hand guard. I still have some doubts about the whole thing...

7th September 2006, 06:09 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	I cannot see any reason why not to snap this up and proudly shout your triumph, as long as the price is good . This may vary in detail from many published examples but these are nonstandard weapons and although said to be Abyssinian were in use in a huge region with Christians, Muslims, and Animists all contributing to the styles of weapons. If you do not buy it, you could give me the nod .

7th September 2006, 06:29 PM	#8
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	I agree with Tim. If the price is not high, buy it now and agonize later.

8th September 2006, 03:19 PM	#9
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	I suppose....with a sword such as this...a good indication of it's 'authenticity' is to actually 'wield' it, ..... if it feels 'right'.....and the price is right ....then I would definately take the risk. I agree that the crossguard looks 'cumbersome', could it be that originally it had a knucklebow, which has been cut down / removed, perhaps due to damage. It might explain why it looks slightly 'odd'.

8th September 2006, 04:10 PM	#10
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Allow me to swim upstream here and suggest that this might be a Berber sword . The scabbard form fits the Berber pattern quite well . Of course if the script on the blade is amharic(sp?) then the matter is most likely settled. My feeling is that this may not be Ethiopian.