STRANGE kERIS BLADE

mykeris · 22nd August 2005, 11:16 AM

Does anybody know dapur or pamor of this keris or maybe age of blade? claimed to be owned by Raja Bilah, a Mendailing Chief who fled Sumatra during the Padri War and settled down in rich tin mines of Papan, Perak, Malay Peninsular in 1800s. Blade is thin and very fragile. Broken tang but restored.Hilt and sheath original. Buntut (end of stem) restored. Old silver Pendokok but not original to the keris.
All views are welcome. TQ.

nechesh · 23rd August 2005, 03:26 AM

Well, it certainly looks old. You might have a tough time getting an accurate call on the dapor considering all the blade erosion. I would say that without MUCH closer examination it would even be difficult to determine if the cut away bits on the interior of the blade are original to the design or added at some later date. As to any claims of ownership by Raja Bilah, i would forget them unless you have some clear provenance to back it up. Many old keris come with stories meant to increase their sales price. It is interesting just how much more valuable something can become simply by inference that it passed through the hands of this one or that.

But without supporting evidence they are only stories, true or not, but unprovable, so we need to concentrate on the item at hand.
I am not familar with this pamor. A staining would probably make ID easier, but considering the present erosion of the blade and the remnant of kinatah on the gandik it would probably be better off to leave it alone.

mykeris · 23rd August 2005, 06:05 AM

Thanks Nechesh, your views make sense to me, probably a reshaped keris, I have never come across seeing one like this before, not even in Bambang`s ensiklopedi of Keris. Maybe my Indonesian brothers and other keris lovers can come forward for their views. I dont think, this keris is of Malay origin. No monetary involved in securing this keris.

Alam Shah · 23rd August 2005, 01:40 PM

I don't think the blade is a Malay piece. For the ganja, it is long and thin, typical of a Javanese blade. Kinatah is rarely practiced on Malay pieces, another reason why I think it's Javanese. Apart from that, the dressing: sarung, pendokok and hulu are Peninsular form. Just my 2 cents opinion.

purwacarita · 23rd August 2005, 03:12 PM

Hi mykeris. I'm not experienced yet to see many keris but as my slight glance opinion, the mushroom carving at sraweyan is not well corroded as nearby edge and though the edge is not corroded I don't think that the curve line will match buntut mimi of ganja. Seems like the corrosion is very smart to pick which spot to dwell.

I'm not sure if I'm right, ...just giving my opinion.

mykeris · 23rd August 2005, 03:14 PM

Alam Shah, you got strong points there. TQ. Have you seen anything like this anywhere?

Raja Muda · 24th August 2005, 01:44 AM

Greetings Mykeris,

I was quite delighted to read the post about Raja Bilah's keris (if this is true) as I'm a fourth generation descendant from the Mandailing chieftains who fled Sumatera when the Dutch intervened in the Padri controlled areas. The Mandailing Rajas have a fearsome reputation for being storm troopers in a number of conflicts in the Malay peninsula in the 1840s-1860s, amongst them the Pahang civil war, the Rawa war and the Selangor civil war. In fact, at some point of time, they controlled a fortress on what is now Bukit Nanas in the heart of Kuala Lumpur's business district. I think at some point of time they also burnt the town down

Raja Bilah was the nephew and adopted son of Raja Asal, who together with Sutan Puasa (my grandmother's uncle. For non Malay speakers, my assumed title here, Raja Muda means both the crown prince in Bahasa Melayu as well as a paraphrase of his Mandailing title Sutan Na Poso or the young prince).
He is of the Nasution clan, which is also my paternal clan. I believe there are still a lot of Nasutions actively involved in Indonesian public life, making their clansmen proud.
Regarding weapons belonging to the many Raja of the Mandailings, what I've gathered from my own research is that they prefer big, solid cutting stuff, swords in particular. One of my ancestors Raja Tampian brought to the peninsula a sundang and a pair of spears, now in the custody of an uncle (I have yet to see them or take pictures).
As far as kerises are concerned, from some old photographs a researcher showed me in a book, they prefer the keris panjang of the Minangkabau model. During ceremonies, the rajas are usually accompanied by bodyguards carrying keris in silver repousse covered sarung, usually with the squarish Minangkabau sampir and a rather rudimentary tapak kuda hilt, though I've not seen many keris pendek.
I was told that some of Tuanku Raja Bilah's effects are kept in his mansion in Papan and amongst them some kerises. I'll try and see if I can find out anything about them. If this was truly one owned by Raja Bilah, I hope it has found a good home. I would be a bit disappointed at the descendants for not retaining their pusaka.

22nd August 2005, 11:16 AM	#1
mykeris Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 278	STRANGE kERIS BLADE Does anybody know dapur or pamor of this keris or maybe age of blade? claimed to be owned by Raja Bilah, a Mendailing Chief who fled Sumatra during the Padri War and settled down in rich tin mines of Papan, Perak, Malay Peninsular in 1800s. Blade is thin and very fragile. Broken tang but restored.Hilt and sheath original. Buntut (end of stem) restored. Old silver Pendokok but not original to the keris. All views are welcome. TQ. Attached Images Last edited by mykeris; 22nd August 2005 at 11:22 AM. Reason: more infore

23rd August 2005, 01:40 PM	#4
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	I don't think the blade is a Malay piece. For the ganja, it is long and thin, typical of a Javanese blade. Kinatah is rarely practiced on Malay pieces, another reason why I think it's Javanese. Apart from that, the dressing: sarung, pendokok and hulu are Peninsular form. Just my 2 cents opinion. Last edited by Alam Shah; 23rd August 2005 at 02:06 PM.

24th August 2005, 01:44 AM	#7
Raja Muda Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 100	Lost Pusaka Greetings Mykeris, I was quite delighted to read the post about Raja Bilah's keris (if this is true) as I'm a fourth generation descendant from the Mandailing chieftains who fled Sumatera when the Dutch intervened in the Padri controlled areas. The Mandailing Rajas have a fearsome reputation for being storm troopers in a number of conflicts in the Malay peninsula in the 1840s-1860s, amongst them the Pahang civil war, the Rawa war and the Selangor civil war. In fact, at some point of time, they controlled a fortress on what is now Bukit Nanas in the heart of Kuala Lumpur's business district. I think at some point of time they also burnt the town down Raja Bilah was the nephew and adopted son of Raja Asal, who together with Sutan Puasa (my grandmother's uncle. For non Malay speakers, my assumed title here, Raja Muda means both the crown prince in Bahasa Melayu as well as a paraphrase of his Mandailing title Sutan Na Poso or the young prince). He is of the Nasution clan, which is also my paternal clan. I believe there are still a lot of Nasutions actively involved in Indonesian public life, making their clansmen proud. Regarding weapons belonging to the many Raja of the Mandailings, what I've gathered from my own research is that they prefer big, solid cutting stuff, swords in particular. One of my ancestors Raja Tampian brought to the peninsula a sundang and a pair of spears, now in the custody of an uncle (I have yet to see them or take pictures). As far as kerises are concerned, from some old photographs a researcher showed me in a book, they prefer the keris panjang of the Minangkabau model. During ceremonies, the rajas are usually accompanied by bodyguards carrying keris in silver repousse covered sarung, usually with the squarish Minangkabau sampir and a rather rudimentary tapak kuda hilt, though I've not seen many keris pendek. I was told that some of Tuanku Raja Bilah's effects are kept in his mansion in Papan and amongst them some kerises. I'll try and see if I can find out anything about them. If this was truly one owned by Raja Bilah, I hope it has found a good home. I would be a bit disappointed at the descendants for not retaining their pusaka.

23rd August 2005, 03:26 AM	#2
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Well, it certainly looks old. You might have a tough time getting an accurate call on the dapor considering all the blade erosion. I would say that without MUCH closer examination it would even be difficult to determine if the cut away bits on the interior of the blade are original to the design or added at some later date. As to any claims of ownership by Raja Bilah, i would forget them unless you have some clear provenance to back it up. Many old keris come with stories meant to increase their sales price. It is interesting just how much more valuable something can become simply by inference that it passed through the hands of this one or that. But without supporting evidence they are only stories, true or not, but unprovable, so we need to concentrate on the item at hand. I am not familar with this pamor. A staining would probably make ID easier, but considering the present erosion of the blade and the remnant of kinatah on the gandik it would probably be better off to leave it alone.

23rd August 2005, 06:05 AM	#3
mykeris Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 278	Thanks Nechesh, your views make sense to me, probably a reshaped keris, I have never come across seeing one like this before, not even in Bambang`s ensiklopedi of Keris. Maybe my Indonesian brothers and other keris lovers can come forward for their views. I dont think, this keris is of Malay origin. No monetary involved in securing this keris.

23rd August 2005, 03:12 PM	#5
purwacarita Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 54	Hi mykeris. I'm not experienced yet to see many keris but as my slight glance opinion, the mushroom carving at sraweyan is not well corroded as nearby edge and though the edge is not corroded I don't think that the curve line will match buntut mimi of ganja. Seems like the corrosion is very smart to pick which spot to dwell. I'm not sure if I'm right, ...just giving my opinion.

23rd August 2005, 03:14 PM	#6
mykeris Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 278	Alam Shah, you got strong points there. TQ. Have you seen anything like this anywhere?