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#1 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,637
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This Kris was part of a lot of Indonesian/Malaysian Keris I found so it was posted on the Keris forum.
I thought it was Sulu, maybe redressed in Borneo. But Ian noticed that it maybe could be Malaysian and didn't look like a typical Moro Kris. So I post it here instead with hope of further comments to help me understand from where it originates? Michael Quotes from earlier discussion between Ian and me at the Keris forum. Ian: "That Kalis Sulu is beautiful. The ivory kakatua is considerably smaller than most. Do you have any idea where this one originated? I'm wondering if it came from Brunei or Malaysia because it is somewhat atypical for a traditional Moro kris." Michael: "I suspect that it maybe could come from NW Borneo based on the motifs on the silver band. But that's just a guess and I still think it's Sulu. Please convince me if that's not the case?" Ian: "The reason that I think it is odd for Sulu (that is, Moro) is the hilt: a smaller than average kakatua and the continuous silver wrap to the hilt which has an octagonal "tubular" apeparance. The usual form of Moro silver hilt dress would be circular or oval bands of silver that overlap. Also, there is a small "lip" to the silver handle sheath just above the gangya -- not commonlty seen on Moro weapons. That said, there was a lot of interaction between the Sulu and Brunei Sultanates, so some diffusion of styles each way probably occurred. Indeed "Sulu" has sometimes been used to include Brunei, so we may be splitting hairs." I misunderstood what Ian meant with the octagonal hilt so Ian clarified: "What I meant to say is that an octagonal hilt, per se, is not rare on Moro kris, but a continuous silver "sleeve" as shown in your first example above is something that I have not seen before." And then I responded after not having found any resembling Moro Kris: "I have been doing some research on this Kris but no success so far. Maybe it is from Malaysia as you suggest? I found this illustration (blew up the relevant part of it) of Sultan Abdullah and chiefs of Perak from 1878." More pictures at http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_album.php |
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#2 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: East Coast USA
Posts: 3,191
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Moro kris with an Indonesian scabbard.
Lew |
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#3 |
Keris forum moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,100
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I have to say that the blade itself looks very Moro to me, though the greneng is very Indo. But it seems that i have seen this more Indo looking greneng on other Moro examples and it may just be something retained on early Moro pieces from it's Indo origins. The sheath on the other hand is just a larger version of a Jawa gayaman style and the hilt doesn't look particularly Moro to me, so i would vote for a Moro blade redressed somewhere in Indonesia.
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#4 |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,287
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Do we know the dimensions of this sword?
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#5 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,637
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Thanks all for your comments.
The Kris is overall 67 cm/26.4 inch with a 52 cm/20.4 inch blade. I also think that the blade has some age based on the keris-characteristics, light weight and thin blade. The only place in Indonesia where I know Moro Kris, or Keris Sundang, have been found is Kalimantan, Sulawesi and Sumatra? And then of course Malaysia is an option? Michael |
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#6 | |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA Georgia
Posts: 1,599
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![]() Quote:
Or a Moro blade made by an Indonesian. I have seen "crossovers" made by Madura smiths working in Java. You get a little of both. Bill |
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#7 |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,200
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Pommels like this, according to Cato, were made early and are indicative of earlier pieces, 1700s? I think the mounts are later.
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#8 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sweden
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Just recieved this Christmas card from another collector (not active on the forum).
It's from the Tropenmuseum, Kris from the Sulu archipelago, with a full silver hilt collar resembling mine? Michael |
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#9 | |
Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,252
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Hello Michael,
Quote:
Michael, could you please try to take pencil rubbings from the silverwork engraving? It's hard to see details from pics... Thanks! Regards, Kai |
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#10 | |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,637
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Never been a great artist but here you have from the scabbard. Unfortunately the hilt engravings didn't come up. Michael |
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#11 |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,200
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Everything but the blade scream Indonesia. The blade is Moro, probably Sulu. The rest - no. This includes the type of chasing work on the silver mounts and especially the silver grip, never mind the scabbard. Trade did go on in the region, not too shocked to see this.
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#12 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,637
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Thanks Jose,
Has anybody seen a pommel of this small size before on a Kris? Any other clues? Here is a close up of the hilt. Michael |
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#13 |
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 327
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From your pictures, the patina on the ivory looks like it's pretty old. It looks like everything is very old. The kakatua on the one I'm posting is bigger, but has some simularities. The "elephant" head is also simular. Would guess the age is about the same on both too. The one I'm posting, I would have thought came from Sulawesi or Brunei. I think there was a post sometime ago where someone stated the metal wrap on the hilt was Malay, Riau or the straits area. The Bugis would be common to the whole area.
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