A Balinese Keris (?) for discussion

Paul de Souza · 5th December 2016, 04:06 AM

I have a Balinese keris for discussion. It is a small keris. The blade not more than 30 cm long, still in good polish except for some rust spots which I would need advice on how to remove without destroying the polish on the blade. The seller said it was an ex-museum piece as seen by the catalogue number written on the keris. I remember in an earlier post, Mr Maisey made mention about small Balinese Keris but I can’t find that thread.

I attach pictures of the keris. I juxtapose the keris with a typical Balinese keris I have so that you can get an impression of its size. Any additional information welcome on views on the keris welcome.

Battara · 5th December 2016, 04:16 PM

Well I can surly say that I like the pamor and the condition of that pamor on the blade!

Definitely not a tourist piece!

David · 5th December 2016, 06:32 PM

Well José, i don't think there was ever a question that this could be a tourist piece. Certain size alone would not be an indication of that.
I believe we can find numerous smaller Bali keris about that are genuinely antique and legitimate. The smallest one i own in just under 13 inches (33cm). This one is a bit smaller at just under 12 inches. Certainly by Javanese standards that would be too large for the usual patrem. Frankly i am uncertain that patrems were even a thing in Balinese keris culture. I can't really recall actually ever seeing any. But one thing i notice that is different in the presentation of this small Bali keris from my own is the sheath size. While my 13 in. Bali blade is clothed in normal sized Bali dress Paul's example wears dress that is more proportionate to the smaller size of the blade. As an accessory of Balinese dress the sheath and hilt need to be of a certain minimum size to be appropriately wore in public. The smaller dress of Paul's keris does not allow for that style of wear so perhaps it is meant as a patrem or perhaps it was made for a small boy.

Alan, if you are tuned into this thread perhaps you have some insights to add.

mariusgmioc · 5th December 2016, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

The smaller dress of Paul's keris does not allow for that style of wear so perhaps it is meant as a patrem or perhaps it was made for a small boy.

Alan, if you are tuned into this thread perhaps you have some insights to add.

Exactly! What if the Keris was meant for a boy?!

Or what if the Keris was meant for a rather small man?! I am rather small myself, but I certainly saw many Indonesians smaller than me.

A. G. Maisey · 5th December 2016, 11:33 PM

Kuta Beach, Bali, Melasti 2015

Would you argue with this man?

mariusgmioc · 6th December 2016, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Kuta Beach, Bali, Melasti 2015

Would you argue with this man?

Aha... that must be it!

The traditional Indonesian wearing the traditional dress with the assorted Kris.

Right?!

David · 6th December 2016, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Kuta Beach, Bali, Melasti 2015

Would you argue with this man?

Well no, i would not argue with him. My only problem with using this as an example though is that this is a 21st Century Balinese man while Paul's small keris in its small dress most certainly is not. While the manner in which this man is wearing his keris is most probably perfectly acceptable today, was it so in the 19th or 18th or 17th centuries?

5th December 2016, 04:06 AM	#1
Paul de Souza Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 65	A Balinese Keris (?) for discussion I have a Balinese keris for discussion. It is a small keris. The blade not more than 30 cm long, still in good polish except for some rust spots which I would need advice on how to remove without destroying the polish on the blade. The seller said it was an ex-museum piece as seen by the catalogue number written on the keris. I remember in an earlier post, Mr Maisey made mention about small Balinese Keris but I can’t find that thread. I attach pictures of the keris. I juxtapose the keris with a typical Balinese keris I have so that you can get an impression of its size. Any additional information welcome on views on the keris welcome. Attached Images

5th December 2016, 11:33 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,896	Kuta Beach, Bali, Melasti 2015 Would you argue with this man? Attached Images

5th December 2016, 04:16 PM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,226	Well I can surly say that I like the pamor and the condition of that pamor on the blade! Definitely not a tourist piece!

5th December 2016, 06:32 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,127	Well José, i don't think there was ever a question that this could be a tourist piece. Certain size alone would not be an indication of that. I believe we can find numerous smaller Bali keris about that are genuinely antique and legitimate. The smallest one i own in just under 13 inches (33cm). This one is a bit smaller at just under 12 inches. Certainly by Javanese standards that would be too large for the usual patrem. Frankly i am uncertain that patrems were even a thing in Balinese keris culture. I can't really recall actually ever seeing any. But one thing i notice that is different in the presentation of this small Bali keris from my own is the sheath size. While my 13 in. Bali blade is clothed in normal sized Bali dress Paul's example wears dress that is more proportionate to the smaller size of the blade. As an accessory of Balinese dress the sheath and hilt need to be of a certain minimum size to be appropriately wore in public. The smaller dress of Paul's keris does not allow for that style of wear so perhaps it is meant as a patrem or perhaps it was made for a small boy. Alan, if you are tuned into this thread perhaps you have some insights to add.