Turkish Kilij-translation requested

DaveS · 4th March 2014, 11:26 PM

Here is a kilij for viewing. The handle is rhino-horn with an old repair on one side. The crossguard has silver inlay, mostly intact. The blade is 33 inches long and is made of sham wootz. No scabbard. I think this sword is an early 1800s piece but I would like more expert opinions on the date. Any help on a translation would be appreciated........Dave.

Battara · 4th March 2014, 11:47 PM

Interesting piece. The silver on the crossguard is not inlay but silver koftgari. Nice contrast wootz.

Others can tell you more.

DaveS · 5th March 2014, 03:20 AM

Sham wootz was always considered lowest on the list of desirable wootz patterns according to what I've read. It's easy to identify because the pattern basically runs parallel the length of the blade like ripples on the water. It also has almost none of swirls that are seen on the more common patterns like Kara-Khorrasan. Visually, I like it the best of all the wootz patterns. B.T.W., you are right, it is koftgari rather than inlay on the cross-guard. Should have noticed that!!!!!..........Dave.

A.alnakkas · 5th March 2014, 03:51 AM

isnt this one of the Persian wootz types??

Decent blade, but the koftgari on the blade and quillons are Syrian and recent.

DaveS · 5th March 2014, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

isnt this one of the Persian wootz types??

Decent blade, but the koftgari on the blade and quillons are Syrian and recent.

I wish I could remember which publication had pictures of most of the wootz patterns. Sham definitely runs the length of the blade mostly as undulating ripple lines. Kara-Khorrasan which is the most common Persian wootz has swirls of crystals, which makes it easy tell the two types apart. How are you able to tell that the koftgari on the blade and quillons is recent?..........Dave.

A.alnakkas · 5th March 2014, 06:27 AM

Mainly from experience, Dave. I see such koftgari on blades with quillons and scabbard mounts that also have the same silver koftgari. These scabbards and inscriptions are almost uniform and is probably done in the same workshop... The spine inscription is probably even the same poetry.

ALEX · 5th March 2014, 02:34 PM

Dave, you are right about sham - it generally "runs the length of the blade". But it is also characterized by low contrast and low activity! The pattern on your blade is quite bold and active, and certainly of quite good quality. I'd not call it anywhere close to the "lowest on the list of desirable wootz patterns"

It's a nice blade! I also agree with A.alnakkas that the cross and coftgari inscription are recent (meaning post 19th Century

) and likely of Syrian origin, as could be the blade itself. I agree the blade is at least 19th Century.

A.alnakkas · 5th March 2014, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALEX

Dave, you are right about sham - it generally "runs the length of the blade". But it is also characterized by low contrast and low activity! The pattern on your blade is quite bold and active, and certainly of quite good quality. I'd not call it anywhere close to the "lowest on the list of desirable wootz patterns"

It's a nice blade! I also agree with A.alnakkas that the cross and coftgari inscription are recent (meaning post 19th Century

) and likely of Syrian origin, as could be the blade itself. I agree the blade is at least 19th Century.

I wouldnt argue with you, Alex, as you are far more experienced than me when it comes to wootz patterns. But isnt the pattern too bold to count as sham?

4th March 2014, 11:26 PM	#1
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	Turkish Kilij-translation requested Here is a kilij for viewing. The handle is rhino-horn with an old repair on one side. The crossguard has silver inlay, mostly intact. The blade is 33 inches long and is made of sham wootz. No scabbard. I think this sword is an early 1800s piece but I would like more expert opinions on the date. Any help on a translation would be appreciated........Dave. Attached Images

4th March 2014, 11:47 PM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Interesting piece. The silver on the crossguard is not inlay but silver koftgari. Nice contrast wootz. Others can tell you more.

5th March 2014, 03:20 AM	#3
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	Sham wootz was always considered lowest on the list of desirable wootz patterns according to what I've read. It's easy to identify because the pattern basically runs parallel the length of the blade like ripples on the water. It also has almost none of swirls that are seen on the more common patterns like Kara-Khorrasan. Visually, I like it the best of all the wootz patterns. B.T.W., you are right, it is koftgari rather than inlay on the cross-guard. Should have noticed that!!!!!..........Dave.

5th March 2014, 03:51 AM	#4
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	isnt this one of the Persian wootz types?? Decent blade, but the koftgari on the blade and quillons are Syrian and recent.

5th March 2014, 06:27 AM	#6
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	Mainly from experience, Dave. I see such koftgari on blades with quillons and scabbard mounts that also have the same silver koftgari. These scabbards and inscriptions are almost uniform and is probably done in the same workshop... The spine inscription is probably even the same poetry.

5th March 2014, 02:34 PM	#7
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Dave, you are right about sham - it generally "runs the length of the blade". But it is also characterized by low contrast and low activity! The pattern on your blade is quite bold and active, and certainly of quite good quality. I'd not call it anywhere close to the "lowest on the list of desirable wootz patterns" It's a nice blade! I also agree with A.alnakkas that the cross and coftgari inscription are recent (meaning post 19th Century ) and likely of Syrian origin, as could be the blade itself. I agree the blade is at least 19th Century.