Huge african ritual? sword

francantolin · 25th August 2021, 08:53 PM

Hello dear members,

I just came back from holidays,
I took with me these two items,

an old north african whip with bone handle
and a XXL african sword,
really large and heavy, 70cm long
I think its ritual ceremonial model, not a ''real'' blade
but I think it's a genuine item and not too recent
with brass or copper inlays in the blade and ivory hilt.
Maybe a Congolese origin ?

Kubur · 25th August 2021, 10:52 PM

Hi
I love your sword, really nice patina on the ivory.
It looks from Central Africa and geniune.
Is it hippo ivory?
One thing I'm sure, it's the pattern on the hilt: it is a cawrie's pattern.
Very valuable shells in Africa
Congrats

francantolin · 26th August 2021, 09:54 AM

Hello,
Thank you for your message,

I don't know if the hilt is made with an hippo teeth,
but likely , the hilt shape stay cylindrical, not conical at all...

could this item be called '' traditional money'' ( I translate litterally ) more than a weapon
like large spears heads, often used in Central Africa as money exchange, gift for a wedding...

Sajen · 26th August 2021, 06:48 PM

I guess that the hilt is from elephant ivory, hippo look different.

Regards,
Detlef

mross · 28th August 2021, 08:54 PM

What is that imbedded near the tip? Looks kinda cool.

Miguel · 28th August 2021, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by francantolin

Hello dear members,

I just came back from holidays,
I took with me these two items,

an old north african whip with bone handle
and a XXL african sword,
really large and heavy, 70cm long
I think its ritual ceremonial model, not a ''real'' blade
but I think it's a genuine item and not too recent
with brass or copper inlays in the blade and ivory hilt.
Maybe a Congolese origin ?

Hi,

Very nice sword and quite rare. I believe it to be a Songye prestige sword made in the late 19th C. The asongye people from the lower Congo basin are renowned for their metal working skills and craftsmanship.
Regards
Miguel

francantolin · 29th August 2021, 05:04 PM

Hello,
Thank you all for your comments !

Near the tip, it seems to be hammered copper brass nails ( on both side of the blade )
or maybe melted metal ( maybe gold

)

I inserted too another picture of the hilt showing the ''inside'' visible part ,
find it interesting...

Kind regards

Pieje · 31st August 2021, 12:19 PM

No Songye at all, even not central Africa.
You should look into West-Africa, Yoruba etc.

Miguel · 3rd September 2021, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pieje

No Songye at all, even not central Africa.
You should look into West-Africa, Yoruba etc.

I am no African expert, far from it, but I like to look at them and do a little research. I have not found a similar west African weapon to the one in question aund so still think it is Songye and certainly a weapon of the Congo.

francantolin · 3rd September 2021, 09:37 PM

Hello all,

I too think, like Miguel and Kubur that the Congolese-central Africa origin is the most convincing hypothesis,

Maybe from the Kuba people, I found these two large swords
moreless look-like,
One with a large spatula blade shape and ivory end on the hilt,
the other one with ''nailed'' copper inserts
PS: looking closer, I think more and more that the melted metal in
''my blade'' can be made of mixed gold, I have to test it
(by a jeweler ? )

Kind regards

25th August 2021, 08:53 PM	#1
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 877	Huge african ritual? sword Hello dear members, I just came back from holidays, I took with me these two items, an old north african whip with bone handle and a XXL african sword, really large and heavy, 70cm long I think its ritual ceremonial model, not a ''real'' blade but I think it's a genuine item and not too recent with brass or copper inlays in the blade and ivory hilt. Maybe a Congolese origin ? Attached Images

29th August 2021, 05:04 PM	#7
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 877	Hello, Thank you all for your comments ! Near the tip, it seems to be hammered copper brass nails ( on both side of the blade ) or maybe melted metal ( maybe gold ) I inserted too another picture of the hilt showing the ''inside'' visible part , find it interesting... Kind regards Attached Images

3rd September 2021, 09:37 PM	#10
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 877	Hello all, I too think, like Miguel and Kubur that the Congolese-central Africa origin is the most convincing hypothesis, Maybe from the Kuba people, I found these two large swords moreless look-like, One with a large spatula blade shape and ivory end on the hilt, the other one with ''nailed'' copper inserts PS: looking closer, I think more and more that the melted metal in ''my blade'' can be made of mixed gold, I have to test it (by a jeweler ? ) Kind regards Attached Images

25th August 2021, 10:52 PM	#2
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Hi I love your sword, really nice patina on the ivory. It looks from Central Africa and geniune. Is it hippo ivory? One thing I'm sure, it's the pattern on the hilt: it is a cawrie's pattern. Very valuable shells in Africa Congrats

26th August 2021, 09:54 AM	#3
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 877	Hello, Thank you for your message, I don't know if the hilt is made with an hippo teeth, but likely , the hilt shape stay cylindrical, not conical at all... could this item be called '' traditional money'' ( I translate litterally ) more than a weapon like large spears heads, often used in Central Africa as money exchange, gift for a wedding...

26th August 2021, 06:48 PM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	I guess that the hilt is from elephant ivory, hippo look different. Regards, Detlef

28th August 2021, 08:54 PM	#5
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	What is that imbedded near the tip? Looks kinda cool.

31st August 2021, 12:19 PM	#8
Pieje Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Belgium Posts: 132	No Songye at all, even not central Africa. You should look into West-Africa, Yoruba etc.