How many of the katars we know were court katars?

Jens Nordlunde · 8th November 2017, 10:24 PM

Before I show any katars, I would like to know what the members think.

Kubur · 9th November 2017, 02:27 AM

It depends how you judge a "court katar", if it's by the precious stones or the inscriptions on it.

Battara · 9th November 2017, 04:23 AM

One thing would be artistic gold koftgari? Lots of plain gold koftgari might indicate a later application.

mariusgmioc · 9th November 2017, 08:42 AM

Hello Jens,

In my oppinion there is no such a thing as "court katar!" This is a made up term that was invented and is used by some art dealers to make their katars more saleable.

As with regards to decorations, from all that I know, even the rajas used rather plain katars and saved the lavishly decorated ones for dress and parade.

But that's only my "two cents."

Jens Nordlunde · 9th November 2017, 03:36 PM

You are right, I should not have written 'court katars', I should have written 'daily use katars', and maybe added 'of a better quality'.
The question was not very clear, as I meant to ask 'compared to real fighting katars'.
The fighting katars seem to be outnumbered, although they had many very big armies during centuries - sso maybe the fighting katars were the first ones to be melted down.

Jim McDougall · 9th November 2017, 05:07 PM

Very astute observations placed here on the topic of katars, and as has been noted, some key qualifying factors toward classification. As Marius said, the bejeweled examples would seem to be reserved for illustrious wear during events where persons of high standing, up to and including royal figures.

As with most forms of weapon, the functional, less decorated examples would certainly have been used in the field, or on campaign. The 'court' classification would be a presumed category in most cases, unless the weapon has specified provenance, as has been noted.

As Jose has also well noted, later decoration which included that of gold koftgari, was often applied later. These circumstances could have been brought about for numerous reasons, some certainly for valid glorification of a favored weapon with important heritage, while others of course more marketable embellishment.

Jens, your study and collecting of katars, as far as I have ever known, surpasses any other such specialized work in the arms and armour community. It would be outstanding to see your examples here with your observations!!!
Please bring them on!!!

8th November 2017, 10:24 PM	#1
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	How many of the katars we know were court katars? Before I show any katars, I would like to know what the members think.

9th November 2017, 02:27 AM	#2
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	It depends how you judge a "court katar", if it's by the precious stones or the inscriptions on it.

9th November 2017, 04:23 AM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,229	One thing would be artistic gold koftgari? Lots of plain gold koftgari might indicate a later application.

9th November 2017, 08:42 AM	#4
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	Hello Jens, In my oppinion there is no such a thing as "court katar!" This is a made up term that was invented and is used by some art dealers to make their katars more saleable. As with regards to decorations, from all that I know, even the rajas used rather plain katars and saved the lavishly decorated ones for dress and parade. But that's only my "two cents."

9th November 2017, 03:36 PM	#5
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	You are right, I should not have written 'court katars', I should have written 'daily use katars', and maybe added 'of a better quality'. The question was not very clear, as I meant to ask 'compared to real fighting katars'. The fighting katars seem to be outnumbered, although they had many very big armies during centuries - sso maybe the fighting katars were the first ones to be melted down.

9th November 2017, 05:07 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,957	Very astute observations placed here on the topic of katars, and as has been noted, some key qualifying factors toward classification. As Marius said, the bejeweled examples would seem to be reserved for illustrious wear during events where persons of high standing, up to and including royal figures. As with most forms of weapon, the functional, less decorated examples would certainly have been used in the field, or on campaign. The 'court' classification would be a presumed category in most cases, unless the weapon has specified provenance, as has been noted. As Jose has also well noted, later decoration which included that of gold koftgari, was often applied later. These circumstances could have been brought about for numerous reasons, some certainly for valid glorification of a favored weapon with important heritage, while others of course more marketable embellishment. Jens, your study and collecting of katars, as far as I have ever known, surpasses any other such specialized work in the arms and armour community. It would be outstanding to see your examples here with your observations!!! Please bring them on!!!