Pics: Snake-like Curves

[ganjawulung]

Hi All,
Forgive me, I disturb you again and again, with pictures. What I can share with you is only in pictures. Only pictures, and just only collection. Thank you.. The second snake-like curves spear, supposed to be Pengging style luk. Pengging is a period before the beginning of Mataram period... The style of swimming snake?

Ganjawulung

[Alam Shah]

Nice, I've seen Pengging examples from Hidayat's collection, (in pictures only) . On a personal level, although these might look intimidating, I find these blades and spear points to be ineffective as weapons. Perhaps mostly used as ceremonial?

[Mans]

Originally Posted by Alam Shah

Nice, I've seen Pengging examples from Hidayat's collection, (in pictures only) . On a personal level, although these might look intimidating, I find these blades and spear points to be ineffective as weapons. Perhaps mostly used as ceremonial?

Hi friends....

Just want to join, here I posted another keris with luk which called "Rengkol" as Gonjowulungs spears.

And I think the keris with luk still can be used for weapon. In my mind, the keris with luk more suitable for weapon because it can make wider rip on body/skin when it used to stuck. That because from first luk at the point to bottom side made more wider. When we stuck the keris to the body, every luk will make wider rip on the skin.

Different with straight keris which has simple form. But stright keris more focus to the target and make a dirrect stab. In the other hand, the keris with luk look stronger/rubbery because it has luk which seems like a spring when we used to stuck. I think it shown that the mPu on past period had thought about weapon structures, strength, and capabilities, etc...

Thats just my opinion

[Alam Shah]

Originally Posted by Mans

... And I think the keris with luk still can be used for weapon. In my mind, the keris with luk more suitable for weapon because it can make wider rip on body/skin when it used to stuck. That because from first luk at the point to bottom side made more wider. When we stuck the keris to the body, every luk will make wider rip on the skin.

Different with straight keris which has simple form. But stright keris more focus to the target and make a dirrect stab. In the other hand, the keris with luk look stronger/rubbery because it has luk which seems like a spring when we used to stuck. I think it shown that the mPu on past period had thought about weapon structures, strength, and capabilities, etc...

Thats just my opinion

Hi, I'm speaking specifically to Pengging style of luks (luk Rengkol / Sarpa Nyander) which is exaggerated.

Technically, with its slender profile, I doubt it makes an effective weapon.
In a one-on-one encounter, an opponent could possibly deflect an attack quite effectively, with capability to disarm the keris wielder, with a piece of cloth/clothing.

When facing multiple opponents, this type of blade tends to get stuck when stabbed. Retraction might be slower, worse if it get stuck in between the victim's ribs. If targeted at the lower abdomen area, it might not penetrate the opponent's 'ikat pinggang' or the blade might 'buckle' due to its 'fragile' looking nature.

It might be more for aesthetics reasons rather than practicality, imho.

My question: Where lies the strength of these Pengging-specific luk blades?

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by Mans

Hi friends....

Just want to join, here I posted another keris with luk which called "Rengkol" as Gonjowulungs spears.

Wah, Mas Hidayat,
I am very very interested in the "kelengan" (black only) keris. The garap is so nice. From which tangguh, mas?

Ganjawulung

[Mans]

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

Wah, Mas Hidayat,
I am very very interested in the "kelengan" (black only) keris. The garap is so nice. From which tangguh, mas?

Ganjawulung

Thanks, Pak Ganjawulung.
Actually me my self not too sure about the tangguh of my keris .
So, would you please give me an advice. Did it the Pengging keris too ?
Here I send more pictures.
Thanks.

[Raden Usman Djogja]

pengging or pakubuanan???

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by Alam Shah

Nice, I've seen Pengging examples from Hidayat's collection, (in pictures only) . On a personal level, although these might look intimidating, I find these blades and spear points to be ineffective as weapons. Perhaps mostly used as ceremonial?

Dear Shahrial,
What I learned from Javanese tangguh, is mainly "style that differ from other period". So it was a matter of identity. That is the most important. From the style of weapon, and of course the specific style of sheath, one can differ where did the pusaka's holder from... (IMO, and no "direct source")

To learn tangguh, is not a study of just reading. But also seeing, looking, watching carefully thousands of blades with different styles. After "jam terbang" (Oops, flying hours? Help my English, please...) advanced, then you may be able to know -- or at least to predict -- from with style.

Pengging, very special in luks. Thin like Majapahit style, but good iron, good "garap" (working), although only for short period... (I will add more, soon)

Ganjawulung

[Alam Shah]

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

Dear Shahrial,
What I learned from Javanese tangguh, is mainly "style that differ from other period". So it was a matter of identity. That is the most important. From the style of weapon, and of course the specific style of sheath, one can differ where did the pusaka's holder from... (IMO, and no "direct source")

Thank you for your input.

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

To learn tangguh, is not a study of just reading. But also seeing, looking, watching carefully thousands of blades with different styles. After "jam terbang" (Oops, flying hours? Help my English, please...) advanced, then you may be able to know -- or at least to predict -- from with style.

I do not learn tangguh or claim to learn. I'm just pointing out the stylistic differences compared with pieces from other period. Those that I've seen had been identified by those whom are familiar with tangguh. So I'm not guessing, in that sense.

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

Pengging, very special in luks. Thin like Majapahit style, but good iron, good "garap" (working), although only for short period... (I will add more, soon)...

Hi Ganja, I agree Pengging does have special luk form... that part I've seen from Hidayat's pieces. It may have whatever you've said, but how does it fare physically?

My earlier comment is just my personal observation and opinion.
My opinion still stands, unless it could be persuaded otherwise.

[ganjawulung]

Dear Shahrial (part 2),
I like to have a keris from "short period" tangguh, like from Kesultanan Pajang (1551-1582) and of course from Pengging period (after Kesultanan Demak 1480-1550) and before 1582 Mataram Period. Usually, the short period has a very specific type. Like Pajang, has a special type in the base of two sogokan. (I can't say it with word. One must see the blade).

Pengging, has a "luk rengkol" with good iron, and slim model. The first spear in the picture above, is very strong. (With a "gigir sapi" or say it, back bone in the middle of the blade), strong enough to stab somebody. The Pengging style (picture 2), is also strong although it looks slim (but not to thin, with good iron).

Are those spears only for ceremonial purpose? I don't know. But in my opinion, the slim blade is quite strong to stab somebody... You will try?

Ganjawulung

[Alam Shah]

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

Dear Shahrial (part 2),
I like to have a keris from "short period" tangguh, like from Kesultanan Pajang (1551-1582) and of course from Pengging period (after Kesultanan Demak 1480-1550) and before 1582 Mataram Period. Usually, the short period has a very specific type. Like Pajang, has a special type in the base of two sogokan. (I can't say it with word. One must see the blade).

The short period is probably the reason why there isn't enough time to create more styles... Maybe, if it's not too much to ask, could you share with us, in pictures, maybe we can learn something.

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

Pengging, has a "luk rengkol" with good iron, and slim model. The first spear in the picture above, is very strong. (With a "gigir sapi" or say it, back bone in the middle of the blade), strong enough to stab somebody. The Pengging style (picture 2), is also strong although it looks slim (but not to thin, with good iron).

Are those spears only for ceremonial purpose? I don't know. But in my opinion, the slim blade is quite strong to stab somebody... You will try?

Ganjawulung

Maybe you could ship it over and I'll try stabbing myself with it. If you don't hear from me, hmmm... I might be gone, otherwise, your blade might be damaged.

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by Alam Shah

...Maybe you could ship it over and I'll try stabbing myself with it. If you don't hear from me, hmmm... I might be gone, otherwise, your blade might be damaged.

Ha, ha, ha, but I wouldn't ship it to you...

[Marcokeris]

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

Hi All,
Forgive me, I disturb you again and again, with pictures. What I can share with you is only in pictures. Only pictures, and just only collection. Thank you.. The second snake-like curves spear, supposed to be Pengging style luk. Pengging is a period before the beginning of Mataram period... The style of swimming snake?

Ganjawulung

dear Ganja
Why disturb? Is a pleasure for eyes and mind!

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

dear Ganja
Why disturb? Is a pleasure for eyes and mind!

Thank you Marco,

Knowledge on keris is not only reading or making the new keris and sell it to other person with certain good price, but also seeing as many kerises possible. Keris is like the book itself. We can not learn tangguh (style, based on the period the making of the keris) from just reading books. You must see the details with your own eyes...

[Alengka's Prince]

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

Hi All,
Forgive me, I disturb you again and again, with pictures. What I can share with you is only in pictures. Only pictures, and just only collection. Thank you.. The second snake-like curves spear, supposed to be Pengging style luk. Pengging is a period before the beginning of Mataram period... The style of swimming snake?

Ganjawulung

Hii Ganja (Pak Jimmy),
Yes correct!! that you were disturbing me again and again, as you have some Rare & Nice Pengging Tumbaks, but you just show them to me. You never allow me to offer some "mahar" on even only one of them. He..he..he.

Sometime it becomes an addictive being "disturbed" by such this.

Thank you Ganja,

Alengka's Prince

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by Alengka's Prince

Hii Ganja (Pak Jimmy),
Yes correct!! that you were disturbing me again and again, as you have some Rare & Nice Pengging Tumbaks, but you just show them to me. You never allow me to offer some "mahar" on even only one of them. He..he..he.

Sometime it becomes an addictive being "disturbed" by such this.

Alengka's Prince

Oh, no... Not allowed to an Alengka's Prince. This Pengging spear belongs to Ayodhya's Prince.. (Just kidding). Your're welcome to see my new collection next week. That's what I have. Just collection... And I will disturb you again and again with pictures...

Ganjawulung