A Very Old Kris

Spunjer · 11th August 2012, 01:14 PM

'found this nice little piece a couple weeks ago at the local gunshow. i thought it was neat in that it has a miniature pommel and shorter than usual blade. i would say this particular kris could be classified under "archaic".
looking back at the old threads, this has been discussed before:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=241

when i first saw it, i thought the pommel was a bit unusual; thinking it was some type of wood. it didn't have stirrups, and the handle was actually pretty wobbly.

Spunjer · 11th August 2012, 01:37 PM

there were a few things that was intriguing about this particular kris. one, it doesn't have an asang2x. that, by itself is no big deal, since we've seen krises missing these parts before. but the weird thing about this is, it appears that it never had an asang2x before. asang2x are normally attached one of two ways: outside the ferrule; which is then wrapped, or inside the ferrule, which you would normally see an indentation mark on the wooden part of the handle.
since the handle was slightly loose, i decided to disassemble the whole thing. as you can see, there's no mark anywhere on the wooden part of the handle that it has an asang2x before. the ferrule looked relatively snug to the wood part, and it doesn't have an indentation mark usually left by a strip of metal anywhere. perhaps the handle could also be a later addition, in which the owner decided to disregard the asang2x.
another pleasant surprise was the tang. theoretically, the oldest moro krises has round tang, similar to their indonesian counterparts. this one is an almost round, squarish actually, but still, it would have the possibility of spinning if it didn't have any stirrups to hold it in place.
looking closely at the blade closest to the gangya, there's a very faint mark that it might have had a asang2x before, but it wasn't there long enough to leave an indentation or discoloration. was this particular kris then, during the transitional stage mentioned in the old threads?

discuss...

p.s.
only part i've worked on so far was the pommel, and yes, it's ivory..

David · 11th August 2012, 01:53 PM

Wow, nice find Ron. Maybe a "missing link" of sorts.

Too bad that the the "elephant trunk" has lost the tip of it's trunk, but then, who cares with a find like this.
I need to go to more gun shows...

Sajen · 11th August 2012, 03:39 PM

Very nice archaic blade! And beautiful patinated ivory pommel. Wouldn't be so sure that it never have had minimum one asang. The wrapped part of the handle seems modified at some point of it's history. Do you plan to give it a sheath?

Regards,

Detlef

Battara · 11th August 2012, 06:11 PM

Great and interesting find! Great to find a tang like this.

I wonder if it had an asang-asang originally but early on was taken off.

Spunjer · 12th August 2012, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Too bad that the the "elephant trunk" has lost the tip of it's trunk...

yeah, i was hoping it was intact. i'm always curious about those trunks on older krises; they have a certain look...

Quote:

Do you plan to give it a sheath?

hello detlef. no, i'm just gonna leave it au naturel, but if i'm always keeping an eye for original scabbards. hopefully, i'll come across for something that would fit this.

Quote:

I wonder if it had an asang-asang originally but early on was taken off.

i'm with you on this jose. but it appears to be that after it was removed, no one bothered to replace it. my thinking was, at that point, asang2x was probably a novelty somewhat

Anthony G. · 30th May 2022, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunjer

'found this nice little piece a couple weeks ago at the local gunshow. i thought it was neat in that it has a miniature pommel and shorter than usual blade. i would say this particular kris could be classified under "archaic".
looking back at the old threads, this has been discussed before:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=241

when i first saw it, i thought the pommel was a bit unusual; thinking it was some type of wood. it didn't have stirrups, and the handle was actually pretty wobbly.

I was told that upper class of this weapon is where pommels are made of ivory, silver or other exotic materials with handles wrapped in silver or gold alloy. Pommels before 19th century were small.

11th August 2012, 01:14 PM	#1
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	A Very Old Kris 'found this nice little piece a couple weeks ago at the local gunshow. i thought it was neat in that it has a miniature pommel and shorter than usual blade. i would say this particular kris could be classified under "archaic". looking back at the old threads, this has been discussed before: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=241 when i first saw it, i thought the pommel was a bit unusual; thinking it was some type of wood. it didn't have stirrups, and the handle was actually pretty wobbly. Attached Images

11th August 2012, 01:37 PM	#2
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	there were a few things that was intriguing about this particular kris. one, it doesn't have an asang2x. that, by itself is no big deal, since we've seen krises missing these parts before. but the weird thing about this is, it appears that it never had an asang2x before. asang2x are normally attached one of two ways: outside the ferrule; which is then wrapped, or inside the ferrule, which you would normally see an indentation mark on the wooden part of the handle. since the handle was slightly loose, i decided to disassemble the whole thing. as you can see, there's no mark anywhere on the wooden part of the handle that it has an asang2x before. the ferrule looked relatively snug to the wood part, and it doesn't have an indentation mark usually left by a strip of metal anywhere. perhaps the handle could also be a later addition, in which the owner decided to disregard the asang2x. another pleasant surprise was the tang. theoretically, the oldest moro krises has round tang, similar to their indonesian counterparts. this one is an almost round, squarish actually, but still, it would have the possibility of spinning if it didn't have any stirrups to hold it in place. looking closely at the blade closest to the gangya, there's a very faint mark that it might have had a asang2x before, but it wasn't there long enough to leave an indentation or discoloration. was this particular kris then, during the transitional stage mentioned in the old threads? discuss... p.s. only part i've worked on so far was the pommel, and yes, it's ivory.. Attached Images

11th August 2012, 01:53 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,120	Wow, nice find Ron. Maybe a "missing link" of sorts. Too bad that the the "elephant trunk" has lost the tip of it's trunk, but then, who cares with a find like this. I need to go to more gun shows...

11th August 2012, 03:39 PM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,769	Very nice archaic blade! And beautiful patinated ivory pommel. Wouldn't be so sure that it never have had minimum one asang. The wrapped part of the handle seems modified at some point of it's history. Do you plan to give it a sheath? Regards, Detlef

11th August 2012, 06:11 PM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Great and interesting find! Great to find a tang like this. I wonder if it had an asang-asang originally but early on was taken off.