3 worn out keris

apolaki · 19th January 2020, 06:32 AM

Hi

Looking for some opinions on these 3 keris. Are they old timers who've seen better days? Also, curious to learn some basic rust cleaning & general cleaning techniques if anyone would care to share or link to already shared tutorials.

Thanks!

jagabuwana · 26th January 2020, 07:06 AM

Hi Apolaki, please see the 2nd post in this thread by Alan - http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=23934

Something I've learned is that a simple clean using dish detergent or cream cleaner and a hard toothbrush, under running water, can spruce the appearance of a blade up real nicely.

After a full clean and dry, you can drench the dry blade with WD40, let it dry, then repeat the process daily for a few days.

Once finished, you can use some fragrant keris oil to lightly coat the blade with using a brush. I use liquid paraffin and sandalwood (cendana).

A. G. Maisey · 26th January 2020, 07:30 AM

There is a heap of stuff in this Forum on cleaning and restoration, I don't know where it is, but maybe David can point you in the right direction, or tell you how to find it.

Apart from that, as Jaga has commented, just a decent cleanup with detergent and a toothbrush can work wonders on a blade if it is not too dirty. I think I'd be trying this on the top keris with the Bugis-style hilt. This actually looks like a pretty decent blade.

The middle blade that is thick with red rust needs a vinegar soak, when you find the cleaning stuff I've mentioned it will explain how to do this. This blade is what we call a "robahan" = a changeling. It has been altered to create the pudak setegal spurs on its side.

The bottom blade is an old very ordinary Javanese blade, this might respond OK to just a dishwash cleanup too.

The top blade does not belong with that Bugis pistol grip type hilt, but it would go pretty nicely with heavily carved hilt that is under the very rusty blade.

The bottom blade has a correct hilt already fitted.

The top scabbard can probably be glued together, but really, none of these blades belong in it.

The other wrongko parts look too far gone to do anything with. Put them into the spare parts box until something comes along that you can use them with.

EDIT

I just noticed the link that Jaga put into his post. The recommendations in that will certainly help, but apart from that there's a lot of other stuff too.

Mickey the Finn · 27th January 2020, 05:25 AM

Provided one thinks of it as a mindless automaton like a "toyol/tuyul", with essentially identical limitations to it's performance, the Search function in the Menu Bar above can be useful. Type in a pertinent word or two, and, provided the word(s) searched for have actually been written in a post (as spelled in the Search field), the posts will be brought up in a list. Searching for "rust removal" would fail to bring up posts with "remove corrosion", or "cleaning keris", unless these words also happened to appear in the same post. Like a toyol, the Search will return with results (if present) for "USD1" while ignoring any Krugerrands or Chilean Pesos which may also be present.

apolaki · 28th January 2020, 05:23 AM

Hello, thank you so much for this wealth of information!

I am interested to know are there specific dish detergents recommended to use or avoid such as citric scent because of acidic properties?

With regards to painting a slurry of bicarbonate of soda to remove the vinegar residue, what is a slurry? Sorry I am not familiar with that term in the US!

A. G. Maisey · 28th January 2020, 06:10 AM

A slurry is a watery paste. Some people consider it to be unnecessary caution, I do not.

I am very specific with my selection of dishwash liquid:- I specifically use the one that is on the kitchen sink.

David · 28th January 2020, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I am very specific with my selection of dishwash liquid:- I specifically use the one that is on the kitchen sink.

apolaki · 9th February 2020, 06:05 PM

Hi Jagabuwana,

I was curious to know the reason for applying fragrant oil after applying WD40? Is it just for aromatic reasons?

I chose to buy Pure Mineral Oil. Would it be good idea to apply the mineral oil after WD40 application is completed?

I do also have sandalwood & patchouli highly fragranced warming oil that has alot of various chemical incredients on the label.. I am hesitant to use it because its not "pure" and I dont know what chemicals can cause a reaction.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jagabuwana

Hi Apolaki, please see the 2nd post in this thread by Alan - http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=23934

Something I've learned is that a simple clean using dish detergent or cream cleaner and a hard toothbrush, under running water, can spruce the appearance of a blade up real nicely.

After a full clean and dry, you can drench the dry blade with WD40, let it dry, then repeat the process daily for a few days.

Once finished, you can use some fragrant keris oil to lightly coat the blade with using a brush. I use liquid paraffin and sandalwood (cendana).

jagabuwana · 10th February 2020, 01:48 AM

Yes, apply the mineral oil after you have done the WD40 treatments, and once it has completely dried.

Historically, the keris is an object that is dressed and anointed because it was more than just a merely decorative or utilitarian object. Yes the oil does protect it from corrosion but the primary reason for doing so might have been to further beautify and make it elegant to the senses. In the milieu of where the keris originated, it was and is appropriate and encouraged to do so. It is becoming of the blade.

Whether you choose to pay attention to this and go down this road is up to you. Mineral oil on its own (after a WD40 treatments have dried) will do a decent job to protect the blade and you can choose to leave it at that. But I do feel that this blade is quite nice and it would be a shame if it was not wangi (fragrant/perfumed).

I personally would not use any oils that have been mixed with other stuff.

I like to use 50% mineral oil, with 50% sandalwood essential oil. I got my stuff off eBay and it was relatively inexpensive compared to the stuff you can buy off the shelves at hippy shops. To my knowledge, sandalwood is the only scent that is most commonly used in keris oils while also being widely available outside of Indonesia/Java.

Patchouli isn't a scent that I'm familiar with in the context of keris.

jagabuwana · 10th February 2020, 01:56 AM

As for the discolouration, this is most probably surface rust/oxodation. Of all the blades I cleaned this happened most rapidly to my bugis keris.

If you can't get it off by getting it under running water with detergent and a brush, put it back in vinegar for a short while and brush it off or use a pick. Bicarb slurry again, completely dry it, then wd40 immediately.

A. G. Maisey · 11th February 2020, 10:41 PM

Drying can best be facilitated by following the clean, lint free cloth with a hairdryer.

apolaki · 8th March 2020, 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jagabuwana

Yes, apply the mineral oil after you have done the WD40 treatments, and once it has completely dried.

Historically, the keris is an object that is dressed and anointed because it was more than just a merely decorative or utilitarian object. Yes the oil does protect it from corrosion but the primary reason for doing so might have been to further beautify and make it elegant to the senses. In the milieu of where the keris originated, it was and is appropriate and encouraged to do so. It is becoming of the blade.

Whether you choose to pay attention to this and go down this road is up to you. Mineral oil on its own (after a WD40 treatments have dried) will do a decent job to protect the blade and you can choose to leave it at that. But I do feel that this blade is quite nice and it would be a shame if it was not wangi (fragrant/perfumed).

I personally would not use any oils that have been mixed with other stuff.

I like to use 50% mineral oil, with 50% sandalwood essential oil. I got my stuff off eBay and it was relatively inexpensive compared to the stuff you can buy off the shelves at hippy shops. To my knowledge, sandalwood is the only scent that is most commonly used in keris oils while also being widely available outside of Indonesia/Java.

Patchouli isn't a scent that I'm familiar with in the context of keris.

I just applied Mineral oil to my keris after a period of letting WD40 set in the keris.

I just noticed that while it says 100% mineral oil, it also says infused with Vitamin E. The mineral oil is very thick.

Did I purchase the wrong type of mineral oil? How does Vitamin E effect the metal.

I am wondering, should just the excel oil into the blade to penetrate into the metal with a cloth until it is dry?

A. G. Maisey · 8th March 2020, 03:56 AM

Spray with WD40, let it dry off overnight.

Medicinal paraffin or Singer Sewing Machine Oil + fragrant oil, usually sandalwood + kenanga.

Place in a plastic sleeve.

I've been using this approach for around 50 or 60 years, I've recommended it to probably hundreds of people over that time, most of them since I began to use the internet. It works, and gives good long term protection.

Variations from this I cannot comment on because I have not used all possible variations.

jagabuwana · 8th March 2020, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apolaki

I just applied Mineral oil to my keris after a period of letting WD40 set in the keris.

I just noticed that while it says 100% mineral oil, it also says infused with Vitamin E. The mineral oil is very thick.

Did I purchase the wrong type of mineral oil? How does Vitamin E effect the metal.

I am wondering, should just the excel oil into the blade to penetrate into the metal with a cloth until it is dry?

I don't think Vit E is going to do anything or react with your blade. Not sure what else is in it though. I wouldn't worry too much but if you're losing sleep over it just wash it again and get a plain mineral oil, or as Alan mentioned, Singer brand machine oil.

As for application just use a small, flat tipped paint brush to give it a light coat.

apolaki · 7th February 2020, 11:53 PM

Hi all!

The vinegar solution is doing wonders to the keris! Thank you so much. The rust is almost completely gone.

I wanted to know after I have finished its last bath and applied baking soda slurry to remove the remnants of vinegar, what is the next step? Essentially, I wanted to know:

1) Is the process of etching different, what are some solvents readily available to common consumer?

2) If I choose not to etch it, should I just rub it well with oil, and if so what type of oil is recommended WD40?

This process of cleaning has been fun so far.

Thanks again!

Rick · 8th February 2020, 01:12 AM

Apolaki, I'd suggest that if you haven't put the bugis dressed blade in your de-rusting solution already that you don't.
I think that blade doesn't require such a radical treatment; doing so might remove all the staining that is on there now, and that blade is in fairly decent condition compared to the other two.

jagabuwana · 8th February 2020, 01:46 PM

Staining the blade is a more difficult proposition. In Jawa they would use warangan, basically arsenic. Some people on this forum have been lucky to get access to the lab grade stuff. For the rest of us, realgar is a mineral you can get online which has arsenic content, but the results seem inconsistent.

I have used sulfur and rice water once and it looked like itcould have been promising had I just let it go on for longer.

A keyword search will serve you well, as these have been discussed at length in many threads.

apolaki · 9th February 2020, 04:25 PM

Thanks for the advice. I won't tinker with the keris in Madura dress until I gain more experience.

I did notice while doing repeated cleaning and bathing of the rusted keris that there is some yellow discoloration appearing in areas of the blade. Is this something to be concerned about? I vaguely recall something being mentioned about that in past forum posts but I dont remember what was stated.

19th January 2020, 06:32 AM	#1
apolaki Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 160	3 worn out keris Hi Looking for some opinions on these 3 keris. Are they old timers who've seen better days? Also, curious to learn some basic rust cleaning & general cleaning techniques if anyone would care to share or link to already shared tutorials. Thanks! Attached Images

27th January 2020, 05:25 AM	#4
Mickey the Finn Member Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 90	Re: Cleaning and restoration info. Provided one thinks of it as a mindless automaton like a "toyol/tuyul", with essentially identical limitations to it's performance, the Search function in the Menu Bar above can be useful. Type in a pertinent word or two, and, provided the word(s) searched for have actually been written in a post (as spelled in the Search field), the posts will be brought up in a list. Searching for "rust removal" would fail to bring up posts with "remove corrosion", or "cleaning keris", unless these words also happened to appear in the same post. Like a toyol, the Search will return with results (if present) for "USD1" while ignoring any Krugerrands or Chilean Pesos which may also be present.

26th January 2020, 07:06 AM	#2
jagabuwana Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 281	Hi Apolaki, please see the 2nd post in this thread by Alan - http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=23934 Something I've learned is that a simple clean using dish detergent or cream cleaner and a hard toothbrush, under running water, can spruce the appearance of a blade up real nicely. After a full clean and dry, you can drench the dry blade with WD40, let it dry, then repeat the process daily for a few days. Once finished, you can use some fragrant keris oil to lightly coat the blade with using a brush. I use liquid paraffin and sandalwood (cendana).

26th January 2020, 07:30 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	There is a heap of stuff in this Forum on cleaning and restoration, I don't know where it is, but maybe David can point you in the right direction, or tell you how to find it. Apart from that, as Jaga has commented, just a decent cleanup with detergent and a toothbrush can work wonders on a blade if it is not too dirty. I think I'd be trying this on the top keris with the Bugis-style hilt. This actually looks like a pretty decent blade. The middle blade that is thick with red rust needs a vinegar soak, when you find the cleaning stuff I've mentioned it will explain how to do this. This blade is what we call a "robahan" = a changeling. It has been altered to create the pudak setegal spurs on its side. The bottom blade is an old very ordinary Javanese blade, this might respond OK to just a dishwash cleanup too. The top blade does not belong with that Bugis pistol grip type hilt, but it would go pretty nicely with heavily carved hilt that is under the very rusty blade. The bottom blade has a correct hilt already fitted. The top scabbard can probably be glued together, but really, none of these blades belong in it. The other wrongko parts look too far gone to do anything with. Put them into the spare parts box until something comes along that you can use them with. EDIT I just noticed the link that Jaga put into his post. The recommendations in that will certainly help, but apart from that there's a lot of other stuff too.

28th January 2020, 05:23 AM	#5
apolaki Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 160	Hello, thank you so much for this wealth of information! I am interested to know are there specific dish detergents recommended to use or avoid such as citric scent because of acidic properties? With regards to painting a slurry of bicarbonate of soda to remove the vinegar residue, what is a slurry? Sorry I am not familiar with that term in the US!

28th January 2020, 06:10 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	A slurry is a watery paste. Some people consider it to be unnecessary caution, I do not. I am very specific with my selection of dishwash liquid:- I specifically use the one that is on the kitchen sink.

10th February 2020, 01:48 AM	#9
jagabuwana Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 281	Yes, apply the mineral oil after you have done the WD40 treatments, and once it has completely dried. Historically, the keris is an object that is dressed and anointed because it was more than just a merely decorative or utilitarian object. Yes the oil does protect it from corrosion but the primary reason for doing so might have been to further beautify and make it elegant to the senses. In the milieu of where the keris originated, it was and is appropriate and encouraged to do so. It is becoming of the blade. Whether you choose to pay attention to this and go down this road is up to you. Mineral oil on its own (after a WD40 treatments have dried) will do a decent job to protect the blade and you can choose to leave it at that. But I do feel that this blade is quite nice and it would be a shame if it was not wangi (fragrant/perfumed). I personally would not use any oils that have been mixed with other stuff. I like to use 50% mineral oil, with 50% sandalwood essential oil. I got my stuff off eBay and it was relatively inexpensive compared to the stuff you can buy off the shelves at hippy shops. To my knowledge, sandalwood is the only scent that is most commonly used in keris oils while also being widely available outside of Indonesia/Java. Patchouli isn't a scent that I'm familiar with in the context of keris.

10th February 2020, 01:56 AM	#10
jagabuwana Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 281	As for the discolouration, this is most probably surface rust/oxodation. Of all the blades I cleaned this happened most rapidly to my bugis keris. If you can't get it off by getting it under running water with detergent and a brush, put it back in vinegar for a short while and brush it off or use a pick. Bicarb slurry again, completely dry it, then wd40 immediately.

11th February 2020, 10:41 PM	#11
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	Drying can best be facilitated by following the clean, lint free cloth with a hairdryer.

8th March 2020, 03:56 AM	#13
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	Spray with WD40, let it dry off overnight. Medicinal paraffin or Singer Sewing Machine Oil + fragrant oil, usually sandalwood + kenanga. Place in a plastic sleeve. I've been using this approach for around 50 or 60 years, I've recommended it to probably hundreds of people over that time, most of them since I began to use the internet. It works, and gives good long term protection. Variations from this I cannot comment on because I have not used all possible variations.

7th February 2020, 11:53 PM	#15
apolaki Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 160	Hi all! The vinegar solution is doing wonders to the keris! Thank you so much. The rust is almost completely gone. I wanted to know after I have finished its last bath and applied baking soda slurry to remove the remnants of vinegar, what is the next step? Essentially, I wanted to know: 1) Is the process of etching different, what are some solvents readily available to common consumer? 2) If I choose not to etch it, should I just rub it well with oil, and if so what type of oil is recommended WD40? This process of cleaning has been fun so far. Thanks again!

8th February 2020, 01:12 AM	#16
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Apolaki, I'd suggest that if you haven't put the bugis dressed blade in your de-rusting solution already that you don't. I think that blade doesn't require such a radical treatment; doing so might remove all the staining that is on there now, and that blade is in fairly decent condition compared to the other two.

8th February 2020, 01:46 PM	#17
jagabuwana Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 281	Staining the blade is a more difficult proposition. In Jawa they would use warangan, basically arsenic. Some people on this forum have been lucky to get access to the lab grade stuff. For the rest of us, realgar is a mineral you can get online which has arsenic content, but the results seem inconsistent. I have used sulfur and rice water once and it looked like itcould have been promising had I just let it go on for longer. A keyword search will serve you well, as these have been discussed at length in many threads.

9th February 2020, 04:25 PM	#18
apolaki Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 160	Thanks for the advice. I won't tinker with the keris in Madura dress until I gain more experience. I did notice while doing repeated cleaning and bathing of the rusted keris that there is some yellow discoloration appearing in areas of the blade. Is this something to be concerned about? I vaguely recall something being mentioned about that in past forum posts but I dont remember what was stated.