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Can anyone assist to identify this recent acquisition. Its in pretty worn condition. I'm thinking maybe its Persian or Turkish.
Any relevant information would be helpful, thanks. |
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#2 |
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With those long "arms" I would guess Chinese myself.
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#3 |
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It is Chinese, but specifically the Manchu type which virtually supplanted the earlier Chinese and Mongol-styled bows (which resembled those still made in Korea) in China after the 17th cent.
The extensions at the end of the limbs are often referred to as "ears", and although they serve as attachments for the string, they do not flex. There is supposed to be a bridge at the base of each ear that the string makes contact with after the arrow is released, to maintain the alignment of the ears. The ears provide that extra leverage to propel the arrow, along the same principle as the spear-throwers developed by various cultures. They also allowed a very long draw-length. This enabled the bow to shoot large and heavy arrows that maximized projectile energy at the expense of velocity and range. The weight of the ears slowed down the movement of the flexible limbs to a certain extent, and thus Manchu bows were not suitable for propelling lightweight arrows at high velocity for very long distances as their Korean and Turkish counterparts are designed to do. The Manchus developed a hunting culture requiring mounted shooters to take medium and large sized game (bear, elk, boar, tiger) at short to moderate distances in terrain that was forested or hilly and brush-covered. When they turned their focus to military conquest and the building of a new dynasty, this type of bow which emphasized knockdown power and aerodynamically stable arrows for accuracy at shorter ranges was found to be useful, since these weapons could easily penetrate chainmail and shoot accurately in close-quarter mounted skirmishing. |
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Very well exposed by Philip.
Colin, if you like to see movies, get "War of the Arrows" (Choi-jong-byeong-gi hwal, 2011, english subs). There you can find observations from the Manchu warriors, comparing their bows with the Korean ones. And have fun looking these weapons in action. The Manchu bows required different tactics for the mounted archer's units than the used by the nomadic Mongols and Turks, those last more proper for the steppe conditions of terrain (vast open spaces). And although the Manchu arrows were more precise at shorter distances and had more stopping power, I wonder if the velocity of the Mongol and Turkish arrows compensate de mass difference with the Manchu arrows in their piercing capacity over armour. Regards |
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#5 |
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Thanks, Gonzalo, for referencing that film. You might be interested in hunting down a copy of THE DIARY OF A MANCHU SOLDIER IN 17TH-CENT. CHINA, which is a translation by Nicola di Cosmo of a handwritten diary by a soldier named Dzengseo of his experience on campaign against Ming rebels in the southwest near the Burma frontier (Routledge: NY, also in UK/Canada, 2006).
The journal provides many references to the role of archery in battles of the era, particularly in conjunction with the deployment of firearms and artillery. It is important to note that the Manchus, though holding up the bow and arrow as cultural icons, made ample use of firearms in their conquest of China, and their successful campaigns against hostile Mongol tribes, in Central Asia, and the Himalayas. (the only non-Chinese foe they faced which had an equally firm grounding in the use of guns were the Vietnamese, and for various reasons they didn't fare well against them). From the onset, the Manchus had ready access to muskets and cannons thanks to large formations of disaffected Ming Dynasty troops who joined their cause, along with small numbers of Korean and even Cossack war captives who were absorbed into the Banners. It is also worth noting that the Ottomans, though they excelled at archery, utilized firearms from the mid-15th cent. onwards; their use of massive siege artillery at Constantinople in 1453 (provided thanks to the expertise of a mercenary Hungarian), is notable for not only its ultimate success but its early adoption by an Eastern culture. Dzengseo's combat experience as recorded in the diary amply illustrates the perfect fit of the Manchu bow to the preferred battle tactics, which emphasized shooting individual opponents from the saddle, in keeping with the hunting methods perfected in Northeast Asia. ( In another thread (the one about an Algerian musket) I commented on remarks about cavalry firepower made by a British officer during the Peninsular War, which you may find relevant to this discussion as well. ) Volley fire with Manchu bows was not the norm, although the diary does describe its use in repelling a charge by war elephants. As regards to your comments about missile velocity and range, I can offer the analogy of my experience with shooting high-powered rifles. A cartridge such as .222 Remington sends small light bullets zinging along at dazzling speeds, the trajectory is flat and accuracy at far distances is wonderful to behold. But deflection by crosswinds, or plant growth in the field, affect light projectiles more, and air friction reduces energy at longer ranges as well. A round like .458 Winchester has a massive slug that travels more like a heavy truck than a race car, but boy does it pack a punch -- just what you need to put down that bull moose. It all boils down to physics, no matter if it involves arrows or bullets. |
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This is a great representation of a Chinese soldier.
Portrait of a Chinese Imperial Bodyguard (Zhanyinbao), with archery equipment and wearing a sheathed dao (1760). This full-length depiction of an imperial bodyguard of the first rank is from a set of one hundred portraits of loyal officials and valiant warriors commissioned by the Qianlong emperor (r. 1736–95) that originally hung in the Hall of Imperial Brilliance (Ziguang Ge), the pavilion in the Forbidden City where the emperor received tribute offerings and entertained foreign emissaries. |
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Last edited by Gonzalo G; 5th July 2017 at 03:34 AM. |
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Regards |
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Regards |
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#10 | |
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Salaams Colin Henshaw, You have introduced a great subject... I Quote https://anthromuseum.missouri.edu/gr...carchery.shtml "From medieval times through the nineteenth century, archers of the Islamic crescent, stretching from Turkey eastward to India, were renowned for both their exceptional skills and superior weapons. As a necessary means of advancing the spread of Islam, weapons traditionally held a religious association in Muslim cultures. The bow and arrow, which are extolled in many sayings of the Prophet Muhammad, held a special place above all others. Training in archery was seen as a religious duty and a sign of status, and the craftmanship of archery equipment was highly esteemed. The legacy of Islamic archery is exemplified by the archery traditions and equipment of Ottoman Turkey (1453–1922), of Iran during the Safavid–Qajar periods (1502–1925), and of the Indian subcontinent throughout the Mughal era (1526–1857), which blended Islamic and Hindu cultural elements"Unquote. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. Below Jarmakee ...The peculiar position for firing at targets directly below...from a fort wall. The archer in blue on a black horse is Ottoman firing directly behind him. See https://www.google.com/search?q=turk...M361TX6vGa6hM: The bigger picture shows a mounted Mongolian Archer... The Indo Persian bow picture and write up can be seen at https://www.pinterest.com/pin/363243526177126131/ Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 5th July 2017 at 02:32 PM. |
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[QUOTE=Ibrahiim al Balooshi]"From medieval times through the nineteenth century, archers of the Islamic crescent, stretching from Turkey eastward to India, were renowned for both their exceptional skills and superior weapons. As a necessary means of advancing the spread of Islam, weapons traditionally held a religious association in Muslim cultures. The bow and arrow, which are extolled in many sayings of the Prophet Muhammad, held a special place above all others. Training in archery was seen as a religious duty and a sign of status, and the craftmanship of archery equipment was highly esteemed. The legacy of Islamic archery is exemplified by the archery traditions and equipment of Ottoman Turkey (1453–1922), of Iran during the Safavid–Qajar periods (1502–1925), and of the Indian subcontinent throughout the Mughal era (1526–1857), which blended Islamic and Hindu cultural elements"
Just for precison, Ibrahim, though I don't disagree with the cultural and religious importance of archery in the Muslim culture, the role of archery, its cultural importance and even the type of bow from the Persians, Ottomans, Mughal and Mamluke dynasties in India, does not derive from their religion, but from their Central Asian cultural and military heritage. It was there before the islamization of the Persians and Turks and is the same of that of the Mongols, and before them the Partians and Scythians, Hsiung-nu and many others. Remember that the Ottomans and Seljuks were only part of an inmense confederation of the Oghuz Turks, who roamed in the Eurasian steppe and just latter some of them converted to Islam. The same apply to the Mongols and Turks integrated in a Central Asian Empire which is the origin of the Mughals of India. Maybe Islam reinforced this cultural current, or maybe it was the other way around, that this pre-existing culture of archery among those peoples reinforced that of the already had by the Islamic conquerors who spread their religion to Persia and part of Central Asia. Regards |
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[QUOTE=Gonzalo G]
Quote:
Salaams Gonzalo G, Firstly many thanks for posting on this great subject which for too long has gone un-examined by Forum. I had a reasonable go at introducing the subject at the European and it is nice to see this thread gathering pace on Ethnographic. By chance it seems that the Turkish Foot Bow and the Welsh Long never came into deadly combat with each other. The extraordinary greater range of the Turkish Bow would certainly have sent the opposition back to the drawing board I suspect. Regarding the religious context I think it has been viewed out of context... It was a quote from https://anthromuseum.missouri.edu/g...icarchery.shtml which I consider not inaccurate neither does it say the bow was derived from religion ...in fact it goes on to say ~ Quote" The legacy of Islamic archery is exemplified by the archery traditions and equipment of Ottoman Turkey (1453–1922), of Iran during the Safavid–Qajar periods (1502–1925), and of the Indian subcontinent throughout the Mughal era (1526–1857), which blended Islamic and Hindu cultural elements"Unquote. What perhaps it did not underline was where the earlier concept derived from, however, I think it was inferred that people understood the origin..for which the Mongolian Archer is clearly the pointer. I think emphasis on Blended. Certainly as I read it there was no inference on ownership of style belonging to the religion...but that surely they observed a formidable weapon and adapted and adopted the system and built a military structure around its training in the case of the Turks with their Janissaries and the Mamluke with their recruits taken often as young as 6 years old from the Steppes. Moreover the subject is a fascinating one and I hope more members can get involved ... Pinterest is bombarding my mail with all things archery and I am certain good photographic evidence will add to the thread in due course. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. |
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#13 | |
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Regards P.D. Thank you for the string to the Arab archery book, but I introduced it to my web search window...and noting happened, I mean, it did not open a page with the book. Maybe I did something wrong, please advise me. |
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![]() ![]() Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 7th July 2017 at 11:52 PM. |
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Regards |
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#18 | |
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Thanks for your input. Yes, I think I will make a study of Asian & Islamic archery, it seems interesting. Was the bow and arrow ever used in Arabia ? Regards |
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Downloadable PDF http://www.freepdf.info/index.php?post/Arab-Archery Authors : Faris Nabih Amin - Elmer Robert Potter Title : Arab Archery An Arabic manuscript of about A.D. 1500 “Book on the Excellence of the Bow and Arrow” and the Description thereof. Introduction. This unique manuscript, discovered in the Garrett Collection of Arabic Manuscripts at Princeton University Library, is the only known treatise available in English on the archery of the medieval Orient. It is considered by Dr. Faris and Dr. Elmer as equal in merit to the nearly contemporary Toxophilus, or the Schole of Shootynge, the chief source of detailed knowledge of early English archery. The manuscript could be used today as a textbook on archery, and is valuable to all students of Arab history and culture and to philologists in a number of fields. One of its most unusual contributions is its resurrection of an ancient system of finger-reckoning—the ancient Arabic system of conveying numerical values by a highly developed sign language involving the use of only a single hand. Though scholars have suspected that such a medium once existed, its details were completely lost. By its delicate and accurately formed manual postures it is sharply differentiated from the crude gestures which indicate "the nine digits" and some of their more simple combinations by holding up an equal number of fingers. Each of these rediscovered combinations, used to represent draws of the bow, is illustrated by a sketch. Another interesting contribution is the solution of the "double nock" problem which has hitherto been one of the most controversial puzzles in archery. I am not sure how accurate this image is but it appears to be an Arabian archer. THE VINKHUIJZEN COLLECTION OF MILITARY UNIFORMS Spain, 1213-1488, Moros Alfaraces... ([Año] 1410). Last edited by estcrh; 6th July 2017 at 11:44 PM. |
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Treaty of the military art Mamelouk, containing the schools of platoon, rider, infantryman, archer and crossbowman. A large number of colored and rather well-drawn figures are inserted in the text. Like all Arab works on the same subject, this treatise contains a large number of technical terms and terms of command.
Beginning: الحمد لله ذى العظمة المتعالى بالقدرة عن الصفات و الامثال. This ms. Was executed in 875 of the Hegira (1470 AD), for a great personage of the court of the Sultans Mameluk, whose name was carefully removed from the frontispiece, which is very ornate. However, the last words contained in the central medallion, namely: عزه الله تعالى, which indicates that the last name was that of a sultan. Gold, The ruler of Egypt at that time was Qaitbai. Between the folios currently rated 1 and 2, several sheets are missing. |
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I put the European archery book in here for interest... See here for a translation of the blue book https://www.archerylibrary.com/books.../arab-archery/ Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 7th July 2017 at 09:35 PM. |
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A bibliography of Asian archery (books only).
Primary sources: Faris & Elmer, "Arab Archery", noted and linked upthread Latham, J. D., W. F. Paterson, and Ṭaybughā, "Saracen Archery: An English Version and Exposition of a Mameluke Work on Archery (Ca. A.D. 1368)", London: Holland P., 1970. http://pgmagirlscouts.files.wordpres...en_archery.pdf Jie Tian & Justin Ma, "The Way of Archery" https://www.amazon.com/Way-Archery-C...dp/0764347918/ Stephen Selby, "Chinese Archery" Not a single primary source, but a collection of a variety of sources. Gives the original and a translation in English, plus discussion. https://www.amazon.com/Chinese-Arche...dp/9622095011/ Joseph Needham & Robin D. S. Yates, "Science and Civilisation in China: Volume 5, Chemistry and Chemical Technology; Part 6, Military Technology: Missiles and Sieges" Not a single primary source, but a collection of a variety of sources. https://www.amazon.com/Science-Civil...dp/052132727X/ https://archive.org/stream/ScienceAn...les_and_Sieges Modern sources: Manouchehr Moshtagh Khorasani, "Persian Archery and Swordsmanship" http://www.freelanceacademypress.com...dsmanship.aspx Paul Klopsteg, "Turkish Archery". Recently reprinted, and cheap! https://www.amazon.com/Turkish-Arche...dp/1684220092/ Adam Karpowicz, "Ottoman Turkish bows" https://www.amazon.com/Ottoman-Turki...dp/B013MCOYMW/ G.N. Pant, "Indian Archery" https://www.amazon.com/Indian-Archer...dp/8173200149/ Charles E. Grayson, "Traditional Archery from Six Continents" https://www.amazon.com/Traditional-A...dp/0826217516/ Stephen Selby, "Archery Traditions of Asia" http://www.atarn.org/commercial/traditions.htm Last edited by Timo Nieminen; 8th July 2017 at 03:25 AM. |
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#24 |
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PLEASE SEE ~
AND SIMPLY COPY THIS STRING INTO YOUR WEB SEARCH WINDOW HTML Code:
file:///C:/Users/Peeter/AppData/Local/Temp/Rar$DI00.156/Arab%20Archery.pdf This entire book is out of copyright and free for anyone to download. ![]() Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. |
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#25 |
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Thanks to those who have responded about this bow, most informative. Asian & Islamic archery would make a good new subject for study.
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