An Eibar couple with patilla locks

midelburgo · 11th August 2021, 05:10 PM

I got my first two muzzle loaders, very interesting pieces, they were sleepers coming from a miniature village at the Leon mountains. Seller says they were always in the family.

I am completely inexperienced with these. They are in good condition, but unattended for 100 years.

There is rust under the barrels, but I do not know how to dismantle them at the front. After removing the tang screw nothing moves. There shall be a retainer somewhere. Lock was easy though.

Plan is, for steel, mineral oil for the active rust with a touch of 000 steel wool and then renaissance wax. For the wood linseed oil, and then bee wax plus carnauba wax in turpentine.

corrado26 · 11th August 2021, 06:23 PM

Get out this pin and you can remove the barrel easily!

fernando · 11th August 2021, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corrado26

Get out this pin and you can remove the barrel easily!

So ... we are dealing with two fixation pins instead of one, as usual (per experience ).

midelburgo · 11th August 2021, 07:48 PM

Thank you.
I was afraid I would have to deal with those pins. I will attempt on them soon.
As for the marks, each pistol is marked thrice in barrel, lock and guard.
But each by a different maker. A famous one with his mark in "Síntesis Historica" and an unknown one from a known family. I am guessing if a copy was requested or the second is an apprenticeship work. The guns differs at close view, but wood stock and steel are similar.
I have a new macro objective just on time for this task.

Now I have the collectors book, more of these toys will follow.

drac2k · 12th August 2021, 06:18 AM

The only thing that I can add, is to make sure that they are not loaded; you would be amazed at how many that are.

Philip · 12th August 2021, 07:17 AM

Taking them out requires some technique but it's not such a frightening procedure. First, find some thick sheets of rubber, or scraps of old carpeting, one should be large enough for the entire pistol, also a few smaller pieces too.
You will need a machinist's drift punch, designed for precisely this type of operation, available at many tool stores. Get one (or two, since they can bend) that are of same or smaller diameter than the pins in question. The useful thing about these tools is that they have an expanded "handle" which is easier to strike accurately with a small hammer. Much safer than using an old nail or something like that.

Locate the pins you need to remove. Look for one side that is bigger than the other end, if that is the case you need to drive out the smaller end. The difference in diameter, if it exists, will be very small. Sometimes the surrounding wood looks like removal of pins was done before during the gun's working life.

Lay the pistol on the big sheet of rug or rubber. Use the smaller pieces underneath, here and there, for added support if needed and to provide some clearance underneath the pin you want to drive out.

Now, very important, align your punch so that it is in-line with the axis of the pin. This may be a different angle from the 90-degrees to the tangent of the stock surface at the end of the pin. You must drive the pin in the same direction as it is oriented in the stock, otherwise you run the risk of slipping and marring the wood. Tap gently. Check the other side to be sure the wood grain is not raised in slivers (sometimes this is a risk if the wood is swollen by oil). If things look OK, keep tapping until the pin is out. You can pull it out from the other side if there is enough exposed pin to grab with a needle nosed pliers.

Please share pics once your cleaning operations are finished. These are an attractive and good quality pair of pistols.

fernando · 11th August 2021, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by midelburgo

...There is rust under the barrels, but I do not know how to dismantle them at the front. After removing the tang screw nothing moves. There shall be a retainer somewhere...

That is no easy job; close to impractical. Before barrel fronts were held to forestocks by means of an easily dismountable iron wedge introduced in a steel 'eye' welded to the barrel underside, pins were used for the same purpose. Only that such pins are not easy to extract; you have to push them off by carefully hammering with a rod slightly thinner than the pin hole, not to damage (widen) the wooden orifice. The holding system inside is the same; only that, instead of a rectangular steel hole for the modern tab, such early one, like yours, is round, corresponding to holding pin.
... if i make myself understood.

.

Fernando K · 11th August 2021, 06:28 PM

Hello

It would be interesting a photograph of the punches in the barrel, to know the manufacturer. The lock is a mikelet "to the three fashions"

Affectionately

Fernando K · 11th August 2021, 06:33 PM

Hello

I notice that the barrel is held by a pair of pins, marked by Corrado and Fernando

11th August 2021, 05:10 PM	#1
midelburgo Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 257	An Eibar couple with patilla locks I got my first two muzzle loaders, very interesting pieces, they were sleepers coming from a miniature village at the Leon mountains. Seller says they were always in the family. I am completely inexperienced with these. They are in good condition, but unattended for 100 years. There is rust under the barrels, but I do not know how to dismantle them at the front. After removing the tang screw nothing moves. There shall be a retainer somewhere. Lock was easy though. Plan is, for steel, mineral oil for the active rust with a touch of 000 steel wool and then renaissance wax. For the wood linseed oil, and then bee wax plus carnauba wax in turpentine. Attached Images Last edited by midelburgo; 11th August 2021 at 05:31 PM.

11th August 2021, 06:23 PM	#2
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,204	Get out this pin and you can remove the barrel easily! Attached Images

11th August 2021, 07:48 PM	#4
midelburgo Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 257	Thank you. I was afraid I would have to deal with those pins. I will attempt on them soon. As for the marks, each pistol is marked thrice in barrel, lock and guard. But each by a different maker. A famous one with his mark in "Síntesis Historica" and an unknown one from a known family. I am guessing if a copy was requested or the second is an apprenticeship work. The guns differs at close view, but wood stock and steel are similar. I have a new macro objective just on time for this task. Now I have the collectors book, more of these toys will follow. Last edited by midelburgo; 12th August 2021 at 12:23 PM.

12th August 2021, 07:17 AM	#6
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	Removing the pins Taking them out requires some technique but it's not such a frightening procedure. First, find some thick sheets of rubber, or scraps of old carpeting, one should be large enough for the entire pistol, also a few smaller pieces too. You will need a machinist's drift punch, designed for precisely this type of operation, available at many tool stores. Get one (or two, since they can bend) that are of same or smaller diameter than the pins in question. The useful thing about these tools is that they have an expanded "handle" which is easier to strike accurately with a small hammer. Much safer than using an old nail or something like that. Locate the pins you need to remove. Look for one side that is bigger than the other end, if that is the case you need to drive out the smaller end. The difference in diameter, if it exists, will be very small. Sometimes the surrounding wood looks like removal of pins was done before during the gun's working life. Lay the pistol on the big sheet of rug or rubber. Use the smaller pieces underneath, here and there, for added support if needed and to provide some clearance underneath the pin you want to drive out. Now, very important, align your punch so that it is in-line with the axis of the pin. This may be a different angle from the 90-degrees to the tangent of the stock surface at the end of the pin. You must drive the pin in the same direction as it is oriented in the stock, otherwise you run the risk of slipping and marring the wood. Tap gently. Check the other side to be sure the wood grain is not raised in slivers (sometimes this is a risk if the wood is swollen by oil). If things look OK, keep tapping until the pin is out. You can pull it out from the other side if there is enough exposed pin to grab with a needle nosed pliers. Please share pics once your cleaning operations are finished. These are an attractive and good quality pair of pistols.

12th August 2021, 06:18 AM	#5
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,232	The only thing that I can add, is to make sure that they are not loaded; you would be amazed at how many that are.

11th August 2021, 06:28 PM	#8
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 669	Hello It would be interesting a photograph of the punches in the barrel, to know the manufacturer. The lock is a mikelet "to the three fashions" Affectionately

11th August 2021, 06:33 PM	#9
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 669	Hello I notice that the barrel is held by a pair of pins, marked by Corrado and Fernando