Hand cannon ended on eBay

M ELEY · 27th July 2009, 03:20 AM

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=290328487119

Well, after Fernando and Matchlock have been wetting my appetite for one of these, I finally found one I was considering on bidding on. Problem was, it was a priviate auction and I've heard others to stay clear of these, especially from over-seas. I passed, and I guess everyone else did as well. This seller had a ton of signal cannons for sale and not one was bought. Hmmm...
Anyway, seemed like a legit piece, if mismarked. This isn't a signaller, is it?

fernando · 27th July 2009, 05:17 PM

Hi Mark,
You are most probably right in that it doesn't look like a signaller but, instead, a 'stockable' cannon, as shown by its shape. It looks like the real thing, and a nice one by the way but, no doubt Michael's opinnion is vital, as he has a clinic eye for these things

.
BTW, how did the guy know this has an Austrian origin

.
Fernando

M ELEY · 28th July 2009, 06:01 AM

Perhaps the cannon spoke Duetche?

Thanks for responding, Fernando. I was going to bid on this item, but I'm told private auctions should be avoided, although I'm not quite sure why? He seemed to have positive feedback, but NONE of his cannons, swords, etc, sold. Very curious.
So those with this shape that are not signallers are mounted on a stock vs what type mounted on a solid base?

fernando · 28th July 2009, 03:15 PM

Hi Mark,
Eventually i don't share eBay problematics, i am not even registered

.
Well, you don't actually need to mount signallers; you just place them loose on a (reasonably) flat surface, and they stand upright by themselves. Having no projectile to be directed to a target, you convenientely fire the thing vertically, throwing the noise and flame up in the air. So they are either conical in profile, or (mostly) tend to have a widened (rimmed) base, to provide a certain stability. This is why often signallers (or noise makers) touch holes have a sort of lip or pan, where you deposit the priming gunpowder.
I hope i haven't spoken much nonsense, or Michael pops up and hits me

.

Fernando

.

Matchlock · 28th July 2009, 04:11 PM

Hi Mark and Fernando,

First of all I guess that the seller thought that barrel was Austrian because unbelievably large numbers of these are still around in both Bavaria and Austria, where they are often employed as door stoppers in old houses. Forget about his tentative dating 'ca. 1750' though.

I attach the images for documentary purposes as they will not be around on Ebay for too long.

Secondly, Fernando is perfectly on the right track and made the final note by pointing out that the barrel was staged and the heavily swamped flat muzzle section would make an ideal land mark for the fore end of a stock.

Thirdly, before probably being around as a signaler and door stopper for two or three hundred years that barrel was definitely stocked and used for 'serious' purposes at the earlier stages of its working life which may have started as early as the 1440's!!! The small touch hole near the rear end and the large, flat muzzle head perfectly fit that Hussite Period.

Something very rarely found on early wrought iron barrels are the hammered longitudinal decorative grooves between the edges.

I include a scan of a similar barrel retaining its original stock and looped hook, now preserved at the Czech Military Museum in the Hradčany Castle Prague.

Best,
Michael

fernando · 28th July 2009, 05:05 PM

Oh Mark, what you have missed

.

Fernando

27th July 2009, 03:20 AM	#1
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,097	Hand cannon ended on eBay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=290328487119 Well, after Fernando and Matchlock have been wetting my appetite for one of these, I finally found one I was considering on bidding on. Problem was, it was a priviate auction and I've heard others to stay clear of these, especially from over-seas. I passed, and I guess everyone else did as well. This seller had a ton of signal cannons for sale and not one was bought. Hmmm... Anyway, seemed like a legit piece, if mismarked. This isn't a signaller, is it?

28th July 2009, 03:15 PM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi Mark, Eventually i don't share eBay problematics, i am not even registered . Well, you don't actually need to mount signallers; you just place them loose on a (reasonably) flat surface, and they stand upright by themselves. Having no projectile to be directed to a target, you convenientely fire the thing vertically, throwing the noise and flame up in the air. So they are either conical in profile, or (mostly) tend to have a widened (rimmed) base, to provide a certain stability. This is why often signallers (or noise makers) touch holes have a sort of lip or pan, where you deposit the priming gunpowder. I hope i haven't spoken much nonsense, or Michael pops up and hits me . Fernando . Attached Images

28th July 2009, 04:11 PM	#5
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Mark and Fernando, First of all I guess that the seller thought that barrel was Austrian because unbelievably large numbers of these are still around in both Bavaria and Austria, where they are often employed as door stoppers in old houses. Forget about his tentative dating 'ca. 1750' though. I attach the images for documentary purposes as they will not be around on Ebay for too long. Secondly, Fernando is perfectly on the right track and made the final note by pointing out that the barrel was staged and the heavily swamped flat muzzle section would make an ideal land mark for the fore end of a stock. Thirdly, before probably being around as a signaler and door stopper for two or three hundred years that barrel was definitely stocked and used for 'serious' purposes at the earlier stages of its working life which may have started as early as the 1440's!!! The small touch hole near the rear end and the large, flat muzzle head perfectly fit that Hussite Period. Something very rarely found on early wrought iron barrels are the hammered longitudinal decorative grooves between the edges. I include a scan of a similar barrel retaining its original stock and looped hook, now preserved at the Czech Military Museum in the Hradčany Castle Prague. Best, Michael Attached Images

27th July 2009, 05:17 PM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi Mark, You are most probably right in that it doesn't look like a signaller but, instead, a 'stockable' cannon, as shown by its shape. It looks like the real thing, and a nice one by the way but, no doubt Michael's opinnion is vital, as he has a clinic eye for these things . BTW, how did the guy know this has an Austrian origin . Fernando

28th July 2009, 06:01 AM	#3
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,097	Perhaps the cannon spoke Duetche? Thanks for responding, Fernando. I was going to bid on this item, but I'm told private auctions should be avoided, although I'm not quite sure why? He seemed to have positive feedback, but NONE of his cannons, swords, etc, sold. Very curious. So those with this shape that are not signallers are mounted on a stock vs what type mounted on a solid base?

28th July 2009, 05:05 PM	#6
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Oh Mark, what you have missed . Fernando