A fine South German One and a Half Hand Sword, ca. 1525

Matchlock · 12th November 2008, 04:24 PM

From Peter Finer's site.

Michael

Matchlock · 12th November 2008, 04:26 PM

Horizontal views of the hilt.

valkenburg · 12th November 2008, 04:39 PM

Awesome! And in such good condition!

Matchlock · 12th November 2008, 04:58 PM

Yup. If I remember the price correctly it was some 40,000 - 50,000 USD. I do not know where it went.

Michael

Matchlock · 12th November 2008, 05:44 PM

That's what the title should have read. Sorry for spoiling it.

Michael

Jim McDougall · 15th November 2008, 02:22 AM

Finally had a chance to look more into this really intriguing hilt, and one of the most captivating features is the most unusual pommel.

In reviewing "European Arms &Armour" The Wallace Collection (Sir James Mann, London,1962), I found two examples of German hand and a half swords, and similar hilt form, with developed pas d'ane type guards. These are basket type guards focused around the ricasso and recurved horizontal quillons (A492 and A478) and both have what are termed 'pear shaped pommels.
Both are German, and from first quarter 16th century, and while the pear shape profile is apparant, A492 is gadrooned (fluted) giving it some resemblance to what I first thought of, the 'fish tail' type pommel.

In looking further into pommel forms, I found that most of the 'fish tail' types were Flemish c.1450 (E. Oakeshott, "Archaeology of Weapons", 1962, fig.160) and Italian c.1460 (Mann, op.cit. A466). Oakeshott describes these fishtail forms as type V and V2 (op.cit. p.314) spanning from c.1350-1500.

While this pommel is in profile, a pear shape, the elaborate volute type ornamentation which resembles botanically a bud opening, gives this profile the fish tail effect, in my perspective at least.

I looking at the blade, I noticed the triple indistinct markings in the fuller and rechecked Wallace Collection (op.cit. p.255) where it is noted these 'three twig marks' are commonly found on Italian blades. With reference to the fishtail type hilt c.1460 mentioned, Mann mentions that a sword with similar pommel was found in Lake Constance,and is now in Swiss National Museum at Zurich (this lake borders Sitzerland, Germany and Austria).

With these factors considered, I am wondering if perhaps this interesting sword, with what appears to be Italian blade, might be German or Swiss, of the period stated c.1520-30, with reflective influence of earlier fishtail type pommels of Italian form. Obviously the detailed pommel with the botanical effect may have some other, yet undetermined symbolism, but the possibility of earlier Italian influence and the possibly Italian blade, might place this sword into Swiss provenance......Landsknecht?

Just my thoughts, and as always, hoping to hear views of others on this idea.

All best regards,
Jim

12th November 2008, 04:24 PM	#1
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	A fine South German One and a Half Hand Sword, ca. 1525 From Peter Finer's site. Michael Attached Images

12th November 2008, 04:26 PM	#2
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Horizontal views of the hilt. Attached Images

12th November 2008, 05:44 PM	#5
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hand and a half sword That's what the title should have read. Sorry for spoiling it. Michael

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12th November 2008, 04:39 PM	#3
valkenburg Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 16	Awesome! And in such good condition!

12th November 2008, 04:58 PM	#4
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Yup. If I remember the price correctly it was some 40,000 - 50,000 USD. I do not know where it went. Michael

15th November 2008, 02:22 AM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,946	Finally had a chance to look more into this really intriguing hilt, and one of the most captivating features is the most unusual pommel. In reviewing "European Arms &Armour" The Wallace Collection (Sir James Mann, London,1962), I found two examples of German hand and a half swords, and similar hilt form, with developed pas d'ane type guards. These are basket type guards focused around the ricasso and recurved horizontal quillons (A492 and A478) and both have what are termed 'pear shaped pommels. Both are German, and from first quarter 16th century, and while the pear shape profile is apparant, A492 is gadrooned (fluted) giving it some resemblance to what I first thought of, the 'fish tail' type pommel. In looking further into pommel forms, I found that most of the 'fish tail' types were Flemish c.1450 (E. Oakeshott, "Archaeology of Weapons", 1962, fig.160) and Italian c.1460 (Mann, op.cit. A466). Oakeshott describes these fishtail forms as type V and V2 (op.cit. p.314) spanning from c.1350-1500. While this pommel is in profile, a pear shape, the elaborate volute type ornamentation which resembles botanically a bud opening, gives this profile the fish tail effect, in my perspective at least. I looking at the blade, I noticed the triple indistinct markings in the fuller and rechecked Wallace Collection (op.cit. p.255) where it is noted these 'three twig marks' are commonly found on Italian blades. With reference to the fishtail type hilt c.1460 mentioned, Mann mentions that a sword with similar pommel was found in Lake Constance,and is now in Swiss National Museum at Zurich (this lake borders Sitzerland, Germany and Austria). With these factors considered, I am wondering if perhaps this interesting sword, with what appears to be Italian blade, might be German or Swiss, of the period stated c.1520-30, with reflective influence of earlier fishtail type pommels of Italian form. Obviously the detailed pommel with the botanical effect may have some other, yet undetermined symbolism, but the possibility of earlier Italian influence and the possibly Italian blade, might place this sword into Swiss provenance......Landsknecht? Just my thoughts, and as always, hoping to hear views of others on this idea. All best regards, Jim