Eastern Sword: Origin and Age?

Tatyana Dianova · 22nd May 2007, 08:45 AM

I would appreciate very much some help on the origin and age of the following sword. It is not large (60 cm wihout scabbard or 24 inches?), has very nice quality brass and silver fittings. The blade seems to be Europenean, very light one. In general it looks like a childs sword or ceremonial one. The most amazing about this sword is that it was heavily used: it has some nicks, the blade was reshaped (the groove runs almost to the blade tip) and was many times resharpened, so that it lost a lot of its thickness and width (judjing from its original thickness near the hilt and scabbard opening). It is still razor sharp, even after it was heavily rusted. My guess is that it may be from Ceylon or Thailand. Any other opinions?

Flavio · 22nd May 2007, 03:47 PM

Beautiful!! I think it's a Kastane. Congratulations

Andrew · 22nd May 2007, 04:00 PM

I don't think this is a kastane, Flavio, as it's missing the distinctive hilt elements of those swords.

The vegetal themes strike me as Thai or Burmese.

katana · 22nd May 2007, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flavio

Beautiful!! I think it's a Kastane. Congratulations

I can see what you mean......I too, thought a Kastane 'inspired' sword

But the decoration is not usual.

ariel · 22nd May 2007, 04:49 PM

SE Asia, for sure.
Quite reminescent of Vietnamese Guom ( don't get me wrong: it is not a classic Guom, but the flavor is there).

Tim Simmons · 22nd May 2007, 04:55 PM

It seems to me that there are two hands and origins on this piece. The brass work is so different from the white metal, which is very crude. I have a feeling this is European work. The leaves a cross between oak and acanthus. This repousse work is common to 18th and 19th century European metalware. The blade also looks European. The white metal bits are from elsewhere. I will post some pics latter.

Tim Simmons · 22nd May 2007, 05:11 PM

I will stick my neck out and say this was originally European and a copy of French work. I would say made somewhere East of France where the French taste was very much in favour.

Jim McDougall · 22nd May 2007, 05:18 PM

I go along with the SE Asia attribution on this, and note the incongruity of the white and brass metalwork. This seems interpretive of European officers sabres in the hilt reflecting the ribbed grips as well as the birdhead form pommel/backstrap (of course not suggesting that the pommel in any particular way represents the head of a bird

I would imagine this to date mid to latter 19th c. and am inclined to agree more with Thailand. The vegetal decoration does seem to favor acanthus, which of course was popular on the neoclassic theme often seen on the blade decoration on European officers sabres, in this case probably British and fashioned after the M1796 sabres . I have seen British officers M1796 sabres that are indeed quite small as well. The smaller size I think were for easier wear in formal events.

Best regards,
Jim

Flavio · 22nd May 2007, 06:00 PM

I apologize

. I remember to have seen this sword on ebay (perhaps I have also tried to bid) and somehow I remember to have thought (or found on some book) that this was some kind of kastane. I have watched on Stone, but it is not the right book. Simply, I was wrong.... So, Sorry

22nd May 2007, 08:45 AM	#1
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 735	Eastern Sword: Origin and Age? I would appreciate very much some help on the origin and age of the following sword. It is not large (60 cm wihout scabbard or 24 inches?), has very nice quality brass and silver fittings. The blade seems to be Europenean, very light one. In general it looks like a childs sword or ceremonial one. The most amazing about this sword is that it was heavily used: it has some nicks, the blade was reshaped (the groove runs almost to the blade tip) and was many times resharpened, so that it lost a lot of its thickness and width (judjing from its original thickness near the hilt and scabbard opening). It is still razor sharp, even after it was heavily rusted. My guess is that it may be from Ceylon or Thailand. Any other opinions? Attached Images

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22nd May 2007, 03:47 PM	#2
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Beautiful!! I think it's a Kastane. Congratulations

22nd May 2007, 04:00 PM	#3
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	I don't think this is a kastane, Flavio, as it's missing the distinctive hilt elements of those swords. The vegetal themes strike me as Thai or Burmese.

22nd May 2007, 04:49 PM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	SE Asia, for sure. Quite reminescent of Vietnamese Guom ( don't get me wrong: it is not a classic Guom, but the flavor is there).

22nd May 2007, 04:55 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	It seems to me that there are two hands and origins on this piece. The brass work is so different from the white metal, which is very crude. I have a feeling this is European work. The leaves a cross between oak and acanthus. This repousse work is common to 18th and 19th century European metalware. The blade also looks European. The white metal bits are from elsewhere. I will post some pics latter.

22nd May 2007, 05:11 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	I will stick my neck out and say this was originally European and a copy of French work. I would say made somewhere East of France where the French taste was very much in favour.

22nd May 2007, 05:18 PM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	I go along with the SE Asia attribution on this, and note the incongruity of the white and brass metalwork. This seems interpretive of European officers sabres in the hilt reflecting the ribbed grips as well as the birdhead form pommel/backstrap (of course not suggesting that the pommel in any particular way represents the head of a bird I would imagine this to date mid to latter 19th c. and am inclined to agree more with Thailand. The vegetal decoration does seem to favor acanthus, which of course was popular on the neoclassic theme often seen on the blade decoration on European officers sabres, in this case probably British and fashioned after the M1796 sabres . I have seen British officers M1796 sabres that are indeed quite small as well. The smaller size I think were for easier wear in formal events. Best regards, Jim

22nd May 2007, 06:00 PM	#9
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	I apologize . I remember to have seen this sword on ebay (perhaps I have also tried to bid) and somehow I remember to have thought (or found on some book) that this was some kind of kastane. I have watched on Stone, but it is not the right book. Simply, I was wrong.... So, Sorry