Odd pole arm

kronckew · 21st October 2019, 02:08 PM

Found this odd pole arm, broad single edge blade.

Anyone have any Idea where it may have come from? Doesn't look European to me.

Philip · 22nd October 2019, 06:53 AM

Is there more of a socket / ferrule / sleeve below the blade than is in the photo you provided? What is the diameter of the shaft? There appear to be two non--ferrous sleeves or bands added on, what materials are they made of?

kronckew · 25th October 2019, 09:06 AM

The fittings on it are made of pewter, rattan, dyed rattan and cord, Here's a better picture that shows it is NOT a pole arm after all. The blade appears to be an asian laminate with a differential heat treatment and even has a hamon. Size in total is 17-1/2 ins, blade is 10 ins long and 2-1/2 ins width, thickness of the spine is just over 1/8th inch. The pewter sleeve from the haft looks like it had been chewed by a puppy and has come loose and needs some TLC (see bottom photo), probably why the original photo had part not shown. Looks vaguely asian, but from where? the trapezoidal twisted rattan wrap looks kinda like a moro kris baca-baca in that it appears to hold the blade to the handle behind the initial bolster bit:

Ren Ren · 25th October 2019, 11:51 AM

The blade looks like the blade of a Chinese "river pirates" knife.

kronckew · 25th October 2019, 02:56 PM

Thought of that, have a hudeidao or two, this one is WAY too thin for that.

Philip · 25th October 2019, 03:52 PM

Agreed, too thin (and small) to be from a hudiedao or any polearm, The non ferrous additions don’t look very Chinese to me, the workmanship reminds me of some SE Asian areas. The lamellar structure with differential heat treat is a pan-Far East phenomenon, seen on blades from Siam up to Korea and Japan to Inner Asia. Even on domestic tools. It is characteristic of Moro blades from Mindanao, and so forth. If you polished your hudiedao blades you’ll see the same thing.

That being said, there could be a possibility that your piece, wherever it was originally made, may have started out as a domestic knife rather than intended as a weapon, per se. It’s been around the block quite a bit and I find the additions and modifications interesting.

mahratt · 25th October 2019, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ren Ren

The blade looks like the blade of a Chinese "river pirates" knife.

Did you mean such a knife?

kronckew · 25th October 2019, 04:52 PM

I think he was thinking of one of these more recent wing chun dancing knives.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9-cJdG_fr4

Ren Ren · 25th October 2019, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mahratt

Did you mean such a knife?

That's right. I meant this type of knife, which is smaller, lighter and thinner than "hudiedao" knives. And which often differs from the butcher's knives of South China only in massive bronze "additions".

Kubur · 3rd November 2019, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mahratt

Did you mean such a knife?

Hi
Where did you find this picture?
Are they really Chinese knives?
thanks
Kubur

21st October 2019, 02:08 PM	#1
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,190	Odd pole arm Found this odd pole arm, broad single edge blade. Anyone have any Idea where it may have come from? Doesn't look European to me. Attached Images

25th October 2019, 09:06 AM	#3
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,190	The fittings on it are made of pewter, rattan, dyed rattan and cord, Here's a better picture that shows it is NOT a pole arm after all. The blade appears to be an asian laminate with a differential heat treatment and even has a hamon. Size in total is 17-1/2 ins, blade is 10 ins long and 2-1/2 ins width, thickness of the spine is just over 1/8th inch. The pewter sleeve from the haft looks like it had been chewed by a puppy and has come loose and needs some TLC (see bottom photo), probably why the original photo had part not shown. Looks vaguely asian, but from where? the trapezoidal twisted rattan wrap looks kinda like a moro kris baca-baca in that it appears to hold the blade to the handle behind the initial bolster bit: Attached Images

25th October 2019, 02:56 PM	#5
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,190	Thought of that, have a hudeidao or two, this one is WAY too thin for that. Attached Images Last edited by kronckew; 25th October 2019 at 03:18 PM.

25th October 2019, 04:52 PM	#8
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,190	I think he was thinking of one of these more recent wing chun dancing knives. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9-cJdG_fr4 Attached Images Last edited by kronckew; 25th October 2019 at 05:04 PM.

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22nd October 2019, 06:53 AM	#2
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	Is there more of a socket / ferrule / sleeve below the blade than is in the photo you provided? What is the diameter of the shaft? There appear to be two non--ferrous sleeves or bands added on, what materials are they made of?

25th October 2019, 11:51 AM	#4
Ren Ren Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Russia, Moscow Posts: 374	The blade looks like the blade of a Chinese "river pirates" knife.

25th October 2019, 03:52 PM	#6
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	Agreed, too thin (and small) to be from a hudiedao or any polearm, The non ferrous additions don’t look very Chinese to me, the workmanship reminds me of some SE Asian areas. The lamellar structure with differential heat treat is a pan-Far East phenomenon, seen on blades from Siam up to Korea and Japan to Inner Asia. Even on domestic tools. It is characteristic of Moro blades from Mindanao, and so forth. If you polished your hudiedao blades you’ll see the same thing. That being said, there could be a possibility that your piece, wherever it was originally made, may have started out as a domestic knife rather than intended as a weapon, per se. It’s been around the block quite a bit and I find the additions and modifications interesting.