Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > European Armoury

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 30th September 2010, 11:58 PM   #1
Matchlock
(deceased)
 
Matchlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
Default A Multiple Barreled Polish Organ Gun, ca. 1700

Unfortunately all I could manage to get is this little. I could not even find out in what Polish museum the item is preserved. Looks quite impressive from a psychological as well as a practical point of view anyway. The barrels are mounted immovably and would all fire simultaneously. Must have produced a tremendous impact ...

The bunch of barrels probably re-used from earlier German short arquebuses, length ca. 60 cm, the carriage and mounts late Baroque period, ca. 1700 or first half 18th c.

Any comment much welcome.

Best,
Michael
Attached Images
  
Matchlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st October 2010, 01:35 AM   #2
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,944
Default

A very impressive weapon Michael!!!
I would imagine an instant volley from this could startle a charging mass of troops and impede thier advance in theory for a moment. After firing, I wonder how long it would have taken to reload this.

In noticing the barrels, they all seem of the same bore..I have read that the later type guns with standard bore were termed 'calivers' (i.e. caliber), what was the difference between that type gun and the short arquebus noted?

I have noticed the many interesting multiple barrel guns you have posted over time, and though intrigued by them, could not really formulate reasonable questions, but this is a start

All the best,
Jim
Jim McDougall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st October 2010, 02:38 AM   #3
Matchlock
(deceased)
 
Matchlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
Default

Hi Jim,

Thank you so much for your brilliant comment and I do hope to adequately respond, as it was exactly the question I had been hoping for.

Short (Landsknecht/mercenaries') arquebuses were in use from ca. 1450 (without locks) to ca. 1560 (with either match- or wheel-locks. Their overall lengths used to vary between ca. 80 and 100 cm, their barrels measuring about 60-75 cm in average, and they were ca. 4 kg in weight.

The term caliver, as is commonly agreed on in general by the leading experts - not just myself but e.g. the Royal Armouries Leeds - actually goes back to Jacob de Gheyn's ultimate work Wapenhandelighe van Roers, Musquetten ende Spiessen (A Treatise on the Handling of Weapons such as Calivers, Muskets and Pikes), first published in the Netherlands in 1608 (and which I proudly own ). Actually it means a lighter musket of smaller caliber and defines the musketeer as characteristically equipped with a matchlock musket of ca. 8-9 kg and an overall length of ca. 160-170 cm at around 1600, of ca. 18-20 mm caliber, plus a musket rest and leather bandoleer (usually comprising 6-14 wooden powder measures and a bullet pouch, and sometimes colloquially called the twelve apostles), and a sword. Doubtlessly that's where the term caliber originated from.

In contrast, a caliver is defined as a much shorter and lighter weighing matchlock gun of an average length of ca. 140 cm, reduced caliver of ca. 14-16 mm and weighing about 4 kg, and the caliver man wore a Schützenhäubel (pear shaped helmet - grrr, got to look up the correct English term in auction sales catalogs as the web is not helpful at all), a rapier and a flat curved powder flask attached to a leather frog comprising a bullet pouch.

Forgive me to call it a night, it's almost 3 a.m. in Bavaria and very late even for a nightowl like me. More following tomorrow ...

And everybody interested in learning more about the subject, please revisit my former threads

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...echt+harquebus

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...echt+harquebus

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...echt+harquebus


http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...echt+harquebus

and

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...tchlock+musket

Thanks and good night,
and with all my very best wishes to out there on route 66 from a dead tired
Michael

Last edited by Matchlock; 1st October 2010 at 06:01 PM.
Matchlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st October 2010, 05:20 PM   #4
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,944
Default

Hi Michael,
And in kind that was just the kind of response I was looking for!!!
It is really fascinating to learn that the term 'caliber' is derived from these lighter muskets, and the note on the premeasured charges in bandoleers...the twelve apostles. It is amazing the dimension added by learning these contemporary colloquialisms!

Thanks so much Michael!
Route 66 calls, and two days til we roll again

All the best,
Jim
Jim McDougall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st October 2010, 05:48 PM   #5
Matchlock
(deceased)
 
Matchlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
Default Musketeer and Caliver Man in 1608

Thank you again, Jim!

Here are some of the engravings from de Geyn's manual of exercise Wapenhandelinghe ..., 1608.

The musketeer wears a hat, the caliver man (Schütze) an iron Schützenhäubel.

Best,
Michael
Attached Images
            
Matchlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st October 2010, 06:00 PM   #6
Matchlock
(deceased)
 
Matchlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
Default

The rest.
Attached Images
 
Matchlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th October 2010, 06:59 PM   #7
Anandalal N.
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 84
Default

Hi Michael,

Thank you immensely for these images from Gheyn's work. Indeed after reading Arne Hoff's Dutch Firearms I have been pondering how to access Gheyn when 'voila' you have provided a solution. So thanks again. I do assume the full book has more text to it? How large is it in its entirety?

A question. Till when in your opinon did the gun barrels continue to be made octagonal at the breech and rounded at the muzzle with a transition design as seen in Gheyns?

Regards.

Anan.
Anandalal N. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th October 2010, 07:35 PM   #8
Matchlock
(deceased)
 
Matchlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
Default

Hi Anan,

It's been good to hear of you again, pal!

De Gheyn's Wapenhandelinghe was the first exercise manual of its kind, mainly regarding firearms, and consequently had many followers (the first of them being Wallhausen in 1616) which mostly confined themselves to copy the original at large, and on a lesser level.

Actually the volume the frontispiece of which is engraved 1607 but was printed in 1608, comprises three sections of weapon handling commands respectively: for the caliverman (45 plates), the musketeer (42 plates), and the pikeman (32 plates). There is very little text, just a summary of the single commands prior to each section. If you are especially interested in the text in Old Dutch I can scan and post it.

Generally you will be well advised to watch out and seek the web for the perfect reprint:

Jacob de Gheyn: The Exercise of Armes (sic!), Lochem and McGraw Hill, Inc., ISBN 90-6087-271-1 or 07-016237-9.

I just noticed Amazon offering a paperback version at 14 USD:
http://www.amazon.com/Exercise-Armes.../dp/0486404420

As to your second question: in Germany, barrels with an octagonal breech changing to a round and longer forward section have been made starting as early as the late 15th century. The raised and acanthus leaves chiseled intermitting bands pictured by de Gheyn only arose in the 1550's. Actually not one single existing matchlock musket is known to be equipped with them ...

Best,
Michael
Matchlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th October 2010, 08:18 PM   #9
fernando
(deceased)
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
Default

Hurry Anan,
They now have one copy less
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:40 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.