German rapier - help ID needed

wolviex · 3rd December 2025, 11:30 PM

Dear All,

I'm in need to find a help in identifying these marks found on Saxon rapier. I was told they can be found in Steffan Kinman book "European makers of edged weapons". I don't have an access to this book at the moment, so I need your help (ASAP)

Thank you in advance.

werecow · Yesterday, 01:06 AM

I did find these keys, though not the letters.

Iohannis/Johannes Kirs(ch)baum (the Younger?), maybe?

Also, please post a picture of the complete sword.

Jim McDougall · Yesterday, 01:26 AM

Probably Iohannes Kirsbaum Solingen c.1600
On p.43 Kinman,
A Iohannes Kirsbaum was Nestor of the Solingen church in 1591.
This would match the initials and the key, however as usual he used odd variables of the running wolf and cross and orb as well.
On a reiterschwert inscription JOHANNIS KIRSBAUM an orbot, wolfs mark and key.
An unknown Spanish swordsmith also used the key mark (Real Armeria de Madrid, cat.G13 fig.110)

wolviex · Yesterday, 06:52 AM

@Werecow
@Jim

It should be it! Thank you so much!

For legal reasons I can't post the whole sword at the moment, but this is exactly the same hilt as here in Dresden, RA or MET (just different blade):

https://skd-online-collection.skd.mu...s/Index/286406
https://royalarmouries.org/collection/object/object-95
https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/23042

PS. Good to see you're still active here, Jim! Ahh, memories... And sorry for jumping in all of a sudden after so many years with only requests.

3rd December 2025, 11:30 PM	#1
wolviex Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poland, Krakow Posts: 420	German rapier - help ID needed Dear All, I'm in need to find a help in identifying these marks found on Saxon rapier. I was told they can be found in Steffan Kinman book "European makers of edged weapons". I don't have an access to this book at the moment, so I need your help (ASAP) Thank you in advance.

Yesterday, 01:06 AM	#2
werecow Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Leiden, NL Posts: 626	I did find these keys, though not the letters. Iohannis/Johannes Kirs(ch)baum (the Younger?), maybe? Also, please post a picture of the complete sword. Attached Images Last edited by werecow; Yesterday at 01:35 AM. Reason: Missed page 43, added

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Yesterday, 01:26 AM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,698	Probably Iohannes Kirsbaum Solingen c.1600 On p.43 Kinman, A Iohannes Kirsbaum was Nestor of the Solingen church in 1591. This would match the initials and the key, however as usual he used odd variables of the running wolf and cross and orb as well. On a reiterschwert inscription JOHANNIS KIRSBAUM an orbot, wolfs mark and key. An unknown Spanish swordsmith also used the key mark (Real Armeria de Madrid, cat.G13 fig.110)

Yesterday, 06:52 AM	#4
wolviex Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poland, Krakow Posts: 420	@Werecow @Jim It should be it! Thank you so much! For legal reasons I can't post the whole sword at the moment, but this is exactly the same hilt as here in Dresden, RA or MET (just different blade): https://skd-online-collection.skd.mu...s/Index/286406 https://royalarmouries.org/collection/object/object-95 https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/23042 PS. Good to see you're still active here, Jim! Ahh, memories... And sorry for jumping in all of a sudden after so many years with only requests.