Another Split-Shot

Ed · 5th July 2024, 09:25 PM

This one has a round "projectile" of ~2.5 inches with an overall length of ~11.5 inches.

Jim McDougall · 6th July 2024, 01:07 PM

These kinds of projectile are most interesting, but it seems not often discussed in general arms and ordnance dialogue in any detail. Is there a way to estimate age or period by the type of shot, manner of joining elements etc. ?

Were these used in any particular period over another, favored by certain forces such as ground troops vs. naval?

It seems, according to some references I have seen, these and chain shot while thought to be naval, and used to destroy rigging, these kinds of shot were often used with horrific anti personnel use even ashore.

Ed · 6th July 2024, 02:14 PM

I have not looked deeply into these things but all of the references that I have seen suggested that their use was naval. Though, I am sure, that they have been used in land warfare.

We have something called s bolo round for shotguns. It consists of two lead balls connected by a wire which is supposed to cause "devastating" damage. We carried them for a while and I looked into their performance. The word "marketing" comes to mind. Picture below shows a bolo projectile about 30 yards from the muzzle. As you can see the balls, if I might use the term, have not separated very much. This is consistent with other data that I have come across. Why would they separate? The gauchos twirl their bolos to get the balls separated. Firing from a gun simply shoves them in a general direction. I doubt very much that you see a 5" separation in impact.

That said, would a chain/bar shoot behave much differently? Why would they?

I think that if these things were "devastating" to rigging etc etc they would have been a lot more present in ships stores and therefore a lot more around today on the collectors market.

I think that they probably disappeared when rifled ordnance became common. I think that they were not common much after our CW.

I will check my references and see what I can turn up.

Jim McDougall · 6th July 2024, 10:38 PM

Thanks very much Ed! and especially for posting this. Ive of course seen these types of bar shot and chain shot mentioned many times, but honestly never looked into the topic in any depth.

With interest piqued I have been trying to find whatever I can. One thing mentioned is that the chain shot was terribly inaccurate (these were not especially aerodynamic). They were expensive and difficult to produce, so I always wonder just how much they were included in the ordnance on vessels.

As you note, after the advent of rifling in cannon, and steam ships these would have not been viable.

Interesting topic!

Ed · Yesterday, 03:03 PM

Couple of thoughts ...

There have been a number of videos that show the "devastating" effects of the 12ga Bolo round. They all show basically the same thing: at the ranges tested (~30 yards or so) the stupid things don't really separate. The pictures attached are representative.

That said, I don't really think that expanding the concept to a 32lbr. cannon would produce different results. That is to say that the ballistics would be horrid and the damage would be negligibly different from a double shotted load.

It seems to me that the incremental manufacturing cost would be better spent on simply getting more ammunition.

There is an outfit named Advanced Ballistic Concepts that made a round with a three part tethered projectile.

https://www.facebook.com/MI4Bullet/

You fired the thing out of a 12ga barrel that had a rifled extension. The centrifugal force caused the thing to expand. That overcame the objection to the vanilla bolo round projectile.

It would also have worked in a rifled cannon, to your point.

You'd think that the Royal Navy would have had a "committee" or something back in the 18th century to evaluate these things.

My Spidey sense screams "cul de sac".

BTW ... the picture on the right shows the impact of two rounds. You can see that the leftmost impact shows both bolo balls with the same entry hole.

5th July 2024, 09:25 PM	#1
Ed Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 228	Another Split-Shot This one has a round "projectile" of ~2.5 inches with an overall length of ~11.5 inches. Attached Images

6th July 2024, 02:14 PM	#3
Ed Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 228	I have not looked deeply into these things but all of the references that I have seen suggested that their use was naval. Though, I am sure, that they have been used in land warfare. We have something called s bolo round for shotguns. It consists of two lead balls connected by a wire which is supposed to cause "devastating" damage. We carried them for a while and I looked into their performance. The word "marketing" comes to mind. Picture below shows a bolo projectile about 30 yards from the muzzle. As you can see the balls, if I might use the term, have not separated very much. This is consistent with other data that I have come across. Why would they separate? The gauchos twirl their bolos to get the balls separated. Firing from a gun simply shoves them in a general direction. I doubt very much that you see a 5" separation in impact. That said, would a chain/bar shoot behave much differently? Why would they? I think that if these things were "devastating" to rigging etc etc they would have been a lot more present in ships stores and therefore a lot more around today on the collectors market. I think that they probably disappeared when rifled ordnance became common. I think that they were not common much after our CW. I will check my references and see what I can turn up. Attached Images

Yesterday, 03:03 PM	#5
Ed Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 228	Couple of thoughts ... There have been a number of videos that show the "devastating" effects of the 12ga Bolo round. They all show basically the same thing: at the ranges tested (~30 yards or so) the stupid things don't really separate. The pictures attached are representative. That said, I don't really think that expanding the concept to a 32lbr. cannon would produce different results. That is to say that the ballistics would be horrid and the damage would be negligibly different from a double shotted load. It seems to me that the incremental manufacturing cost would be better spent on simply getting more ammunition. There is an outfit named Advanced Ballistic Concepts that made a round with a three part tethered projectile. https://www.facebook.com/MI4Bullet/ You fired the thing out of a 12ga barrel that had a rifled extension. The centrifugal force caused the thing to expand. That overcame the objection to the vanilla bolo round projectile. It would also have worked in a rifled cannon, to your point. You'd think that the Royal Navy would have had a "committee" or something back in the 18th century to evaluate these things. My Spidey sense screams "cul de sac". BTW ... the picture on the right shows the impact of two rounds. You can see that the leftmost impact shows both bolo balls with the same entry hole. Attached Images

6th July 2024, 01:07 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,829	These kinds of projectile are most interesting, but it seems not often discussed in general arms and ordnance dialogue in any detail. Is there a way to estimate age or period by the type of shot, manner of joining elements etc. ? Were these used in any particular period over another, favored by certain forces such as ground troops vs. naval? It seems, according to some references I have seen, these and chain shot while thought to be naval, and used to destroy rigging, these kinds of shot were often used with horrific anti personnel use even ashore.

6th July 2024, 10:38 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,829	Thanks very much Ed! and especially for posting this. Ive of course seen these types of bar shot and chain shot mentioned many times, but honestly never looked into the topic in any depth. With interest piqued I have been trying to find whatever I can. One thing mentioned is that the chain shot was terribly inaccurate (these were not especially aerodynamic). They were expensive and difficult to produce, so I always wonder just how much they were included in the ordnance on vessels. As you note, after the advent of rifling in cannon, and steam ships these would have not been viable. Interesting topic!