[A. G. Maisey]

Thanks for that explanation Pak Ganja.

As to quoting references, I personally favour this approach, as it gives an indication of where an opinion comes from.You have quoted two notable authorities, both of whom use a set of standards that are often outside the standards that I have learnt to apply. I was taught that proper usage of mboto rubuh and mboto adeg was only in reference to the blumbangan, thus it always interests me to see the way in which usage of terminology can develop. As we so very often see, each group of people elect their leader and then follow that leader's opinions, and those opinions are not necessarily universally accepted.

I've always understood mboto rubuh as "fallen brick", that is, like a brick that has already fallen over and is laying on the ground, not "like a falling brick", which would indicate the brick was in the process of falling and is not yet on the ground. This is exactly the way it was explained to me.
This is the reason why I find it peculiar to say that a gandhik is "mboto rubuh" when obviously it is not, and cannot be, as it can never lay horizontal and must always have a degree of verticality.
But then again, mboto rubuh can also mean something like "big time"---I've heard a party described as "pesta mboto rubuh", and I've heard applause described as "mboto rubuh" which I was told was because it was like bricks falling. So, as I said previously, I can understand the logic of describing a gandhik as "mboto rubuh", but it seems very peculiar to me, and when we then extend that idea to "mboto adeg", it seems even stranger:- like a pile of collapsed bricks raising themselves from the dust? Artistically pictorial language is all well and good, as long as it makes some sense.

Similarly, when we classify a keris "mboto adeg", in strict terms, that can only apply to the blumbangan, so a Majapahit keris will always be mboto adeg, because the blumbangan of a Mojo keris will always be mboto adeg. If it is a Mojo keris except for the blumbangan that is not mboto adeg, but, let us say squarish, then we need to classify it between Mojo and Mataram, and we could say it was "Majapahit ke Mataram".

We cannot always say a keris is either mboto adeg or mboto rubuh, because a lot of blumbangan are neither. You cannot give a Mataram blumbangan as mboto rubuh, simply because it is not mboto adeg.

"Wilah limpa" I don't think I've ever heard, and it does not make sense to me. Limpa = spleen. How do we attach that to a keris, or does it have some unique meaning amongst a particular group of people?

EDIT:-
I've thought about what I've written above, and I feel that my remarks require some clarification. Anybody reading what I have written could well draw the conclusion that I am fluent in the Javanese language.

I am not. Indonesian I can handle comfortably, but Javanese is a language I can usually understand, but am not brave enough to use.

Because I am not fluent in Javanese I have found it necessary to make notes of explanations I have been given in Javanese, and then cross-check that explanation or information with others who are fluent in Javanese. I am fortunate in this respect, because I have ready access to half a dozen or so native speakers of Javanese, including my wife.When all else fails, I have a lot of Javanese dictionaries, but I prefer not to use these, as there is a degree of inconsistency in them.

Thus, when I make remarks on the meaning or interpretation of Javanese language, those remarks are mere repetition of opinions or explanations provided by other people.


In respect of Pengging style keris.

Over the years I have seen two distinct and widely different styles of keris identified by respected people as "Pengging".

I have seen a third style identified by less knowledgeable people as "Pengging".

Thus, over time I have seen three different keris styles identified as Pengging, and the people who did the identifying were for two of the styles, several highly respected Javanese gentlemen; for one of the styles several gentlemen from a much younger group of keris fanciers.

I know what Empu Suparman identified as tangguh Pengging, however taking account of the varying opinions I have encountered in respect of this tangguh, I am just a little reluctant to accept that any particular style can definitely be accepted as Pengging.