Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

Emanuel · 22nd October 2009, 02:15 AM

Hi Fearn,

I would look closer to the falcatta as a possible antique source.

I humbly disagree with the wiki article. Varangians (Swedish and Angles and misc other Scandinavian peoples and a hefty mix of Bulgarian and misc Slavs) did not use the Rhomphaia, a Thracian weapon. There seems to be a lot of confusion in that article. All the depictions I've seen of Varangian and Byzantine equipment show straight "spada"-type double-edged swords, axes and spears. The McBride quote combines the long two-handed rhomphaia with a shield...the Thracian rhomphaia was essentially a pole arm and could not have been wielded with a shield.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I'm VERY comfortable discounting the Celtic hypothesis.

I tried researching the material history of the Kabyles (of whom the Iflissen - makers of the flyssa - were a tribe) and very little comes up. The many French archaeological digs reveal nothing much. There are very few traces of weapons before the early 19th century and nothing unique or remotely similar to the flyssa. I've more or less resigned myself to accept the yataghan and perhaps certain Caucasian sabres as a most likely source.

We can speculate as much as we want, but there doesn't seem to be any actual corroboration of anything. Camille Lacoste-Desjardins ("Sabres Kabyles" - a great article, I can send you a copy if you read French) had delved into the possibility of indigenous development of the flyssa and had offered some clues in the form of an ancient Lybian stele that depicts a man with something like a concave blade in hand. I saw pictures (granted, they were bad) of said stele and the relief was quite worn and nothing conclusive could be made out. Better pictures might help, or even better, a site visit.

Have a look at the Big Flyssa Thread

Best,
Emanuel

22nd October 2009, 02:15 AM	#2
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Hi Fearn, I would look closer to the falcatta as a possible antique source. I humbly disagree with the wiki article. Varangians (Swedish and Angles and misc other Scandinavian peoples and a hefty mix of Bulgarian and misc Slavs) did not use the Rhomphaia, a Thracian weapon. There seems to be a lot of confusion in that article. All the depictions I've seen of Varangian and Byzantine equipment show straight "spada"-type double-edged swords, axes and spears. The McBride quote combines the long two-handed rhomphaia with a shield...the Thracian rhomphaia was essentially a pole arm and could not have been wielded with a shield. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I'm VERY comfortable discounting the Celtic hypothesis. I tried researching the material history of the Kabyles (of whom the Iflissen - makers of the flyssa - were a tribe) and very little comes up. The many French archaeological digs reveal nothing much. There are very few traces of weapons before the early 19th century and nothing unique or remotely similar to the flyssa. I've more or less resigned myself to accept the yataghan and perhaps certain Caucasian sabres as a most likely source. We can speculate as much as we want, but there doesn't seem to be any actual corroboration of anything. Camille Lacoste-Desjardins ("Sabres Kabyles" - a great article, I can send you a copy if you read French) had delved into the possibility of indigenous development of the flyssa and had offered some clues in the form of an ancient Lybian stele that depicts a man with something like a concave blade in hand. I saw pictures (granted, they were bad) of said stele and the relief was quite worn and nothing conclusive could be made out. Better pictures might help, or even better, a site visit. Have a look at the Big Flyssa Thread Best, Emanuel Last edited by Emanuel; 22nd October 2009 at 02:28 AM.