[A. G. Maisey]

G'day Pak Manshur,

Whether or not your previous remarks were made after taking account of what I had previously posted is not material to my position on this matter.

Similarly, I must correct you in your misunderstanding of my emotional state:- I am not in the least sensitive in respect of anything you have written.

You have made your previous posts in good faith, following a direction that to you appears to be a valid one, however, an analysis of the factors involved in providing a valid opinion on tangguh will clearly demonstrate that such an opinion cannot be formed in the absence of the physical presence of the keris.

I do understand the meaning of the word tangguh. Yes, it can be taken to mean an estimate, it can also be intended to mean an opinion. It can never mean a guess.

An estimate as applicable to the practice of tangguh can be taken to carry the meaning of an approximation based upon probabilities.

An opinion as applicable to the practice of tangguh can be taken to have a similar meaning.It could be deemed to carry the meaning of a judgement based upon grounds that are insufficient for certainty.

An opinion may be either an informed opinion, or an uninformed opinion.

An uninformed opinion is based on notions carried in one's own mind, and by nature is subjective.

An informed opinion is based on objective factors and should be able to be defended, contrary to the case with an uninformed opinion, which cannot be defended.

I am certain that you have been party to a great many discussions in respect of tangguh. What happens at these discussions? Do the participants attempt to support their opinion as to which tangguh may be applied to the keris in question, or do they simply provide an opinion with no reasons? More often than not, concensus of opinion will be reached amongst the participants in the discussion, and that concensus will be formed because of the arguments put by the participants in the discussion. Those arguments will be based on the observable characteristics of the keris.

Thus, the final concensus of opinion will be based on objective factors, it will be defensible, and as such it becomes an informed opinion.

The appraisal of a keris in order to determine tangguh is not a guess, nor is it an estimate, it is a process whereby an informed, defensible opinion is formed.

It is impossible to form such an opinion in the absence of the physical presence of the keris.

What is possible from a good photograph of a keris is to use the image as an example of some of the features which may be found in a keris of a particular tangguh.

For instance, a photograph of a keris which bore characteristics of the Mataram Sultan Agung tangguh could be published along with a question from its owner asking what tangguh was applicable.

For anybody to provide the opinion that it was a keris of Mataram Sultan Agung tangguh would be absolutely and totally irresponsible, because this opinion could not be defended.

However, it would be acceptable to provide an opinion which identified certain features of the keris and the information that these features appeared to be consistent with a tangguh of Mataram, Sultan Agung.

As an example how such an opinion could be worded:-

" this keris could possibly be tangguh Mataram, Sultan Agung:- the blumbangan is squarish, the overall blade form is consistent with this tangguh, and the ron dha is the correct form for Mataram Sultan Agung; based upon the limited information available, I believe that upon close examination, this keris could be given the tangguh of Mataram, Sultan Agung"

Do you see the difference?

It is a qualified opinion. It says "yes, there is a possibility that this Mataram SA"

It does not say "yes, this keris is Mataram SA."

It is not a defensible opinion, it is conjecture, based on limited information.

Tangguh cannot be learnt from pictures, nor can it be applied from pictures. Responsible appraisal of a keris can only be carried out with the keris in one's hand.

I can see no objection to providing qualified opinions on the tangguh of a keris, and in fact, some of the opinions that have already been supplied have been qualified, not clearly perhaps, but the qualification has been there.

But I cannot endorse an approach that sets out to give a firm opinion on a tangguh in the absence of evidence which is insufficient to support that opinion.

Put simply:- we cannot just say:-" This is tangguh such and such"--- we need to give the reasons why we think it is tangguh such and such; we must support our opinion; nobody can support a tangguh opinion based on only a photograph.

Pak Manshur, I do appreciate that you are working in a language that is not your own, and I complement you upon the way in which you handle English. However, I would ask you to bear in mind that in written communication we must make clear those things which in face to face communication are obvious. In face to face communication we can easily differentiate between a casual guess and an opinion which has taken some time and effort to form. We cannot do this as easily in written communication. Many people with only the slightest understanding of tangguh read the opinions placed in this discussion group.If they see an opinion placed by somebody who is Javanese, and who appears to know something about keris, then that opinion, for those people, could well become an absolute truth. However, any opinion formed on the basis of a photograph, in respect of tangguh , can only be regarded as a casual guess. This can be very misleading for people with a lesser understanding of tangguh than you yourself have.