Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post - 1796 spanish broadsword

Marc · 10th February 2005, 09:34 AM

Hi, Jim. Long time no talk...

I'm always lurking around here.

I'm not sure I'm following you, but just to clarify things for those who can be reading this... the above picture corresponds to the so-called Spanish Pattern 1796 (or M1796) for cavalry. The dating for this pattern is somewhat controversial, though, but this style of sword is still broadly known under this name, so let's stick to it for now on behalf of clarity...
The "bilbo" (making reference to the Basque city of Bilbao) label is given to a form of hilt typical for Spanish swords, featuring both rapier and "broadsword" blades, with a double shell, that is around since mid-17h c. It became even more widely known when this type of hilt, with minor variations, was used for the Spanish Pattern M1728 Cavalry broadsword, officially in use for the most part of the 18th century.
Pics courtesy of Liongate Arms and Armour:

Back to you, Jim, I'm afraid the term "Bilbo" is one of those that has changed its meaning through time. For example, I'm aware that there's a mention of it in one of Shakespeare's plays ("Much ado About Nothing", I think, but I'm not sure...), but it necessarily meant something different at that time. There has been references to swords called "bilbo" since them, some more and some less explicit. But the actual meaning regarding this specific type of hilt as it's used by the English-speaking collectors and some scholars (the term is not used at all in this context in the corresponding Spanish circles, where this type of hilt is also sometimes referred as "boca de caballo", or "horse's mouth"), I'm afraid, it's somewhat modern. Victorian, if you want, just to blame some of the usual suspects...

Anyway, there is no clear cut answer (not exactly surprising, is it?). There's an article addressing this subject somewhere, I remember reading it, though it may be in Spanish. Let me check it and I will come back to you with what I find.

10th February 2005, 09:34 AM	#7
Marc Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Madrid / Barcelona Posts: 256	Hi, Jim. Long time no talk... I'm always lurking around here. I'm not sure I'm following you, but just to clarify things for those who can be reading this... the above picture corresponds to the so-called Spanish Pattern 1796 (or M1796) for cavalry. The dating for this pattern is somewhat controversial, though, but this style of sword is still broadly known under this name, so let's stick to it for now on behalf of clarity... The "bilbo" (making reference to the Basque city of Bilbao) label is given to a form of hilt typical for Spanish swords, featuring both rapier and "broadsword" blades, with a double shell, that is around since mid-17h c. It became even more widely known when this type of hilt, with minor variations, was used for the Spanish Pattern M1728 Cavalry broadsword, officially in use for the most part of the 18th century. Pics courtesy of Liongate Arms and Armour: Back to you, Jim, I'm afraid the term "Bilbo" is one of those that has changed its meaning through time. For example, I'm aware that there's a mention of it in one of Shakespeare's plays ("Much ado About Nothing", I think, but I'm not sure...), but it necessarily meant something different at that time. There has been references to swords called "bilbo" since them, some more and some less explicit. But the actual meaning regarding this specific type of hilt as it's used by the English-speaking collectors and some scholars (the term is not used at all in this context in the corresponding Spanish circles, where this type of hilt is also sometimes referred as "boca de caballo", or "horse's mouth"), I'm afraid, it's somewhat modern. Victorian, if you want, just to blame some of the usual suspects... Anyway, there is no clear cut answer (not exactly surprising, is it?). There's an article addressing this subject somewhere, I remember reading it, though it may be in Spanish. Let me check it and I will come back to you with what I find.