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Old 22nd May 2025, 03:11 PM   #8
Jim McDougall
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
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This is truly a fascinating discussion Rob and thank you for opening it. I think you bring out most salient points, however I cannot add much to what you have already noted as far as this specific case. What I can say though is that there is some importance in awareness of these kinds of variables.

As a veteran of countless 'name game' frays here over the past 25+ years, I can wholeheartedly agree with Ian, in most cases this often seemingly specious exercise simply leads to unfortunate disagreements where really, nobody is wrong, nor right. There are so many variables, mistranslations, etc. that it becomes the conundrum syndrome to the Nth degree.

That does not eliminate however, the need to be aware of the glossary of terms which circulate, and record and reference the variations with cross references for the sake of semantics. In researching weapons, the search through accounts, narratives and the like might use a certain perhaps local term for a form, and without knowledge of the variant terms, important details might be lost.

The anecdotal evidence of these situations could fill at least one book, but if I may note one:
Years ago I tried to discover the source of the term 'KASKARA' for the Sudanese broadswords. Many years of searching, even through reaching out to authorities such as authors, museums even the University of Khartoum, yielded no results. I was stunned that despite awareness of these ubiquitous swords, nobody bothered to consider this! and most simply shrugged off the thought of the etymology of the word.

I knew the first known use of the word was in Burton (1884) but contrary to his copious footnotes and accuracy, PLUS being a linguist, he noted nothing.
I actually spoke to various tribal people from Sudan, showing them photos, none had EVER heard the word kaskara. They invariably called it sa'if, with the exception of one who called it 'cross'.

Reed (1985) used the term sa'if kasallawi (the location then of most production of these)as the widely used contemporary reference. It was not until Iain Norman, researching Saharan tribal languages, found the loan word that had presented the term kaskara into the collectors lexicon for Sudan.

What these discussions do, for those of us who wish to go deeper into the study of the cultures and history surrounding these ethnographic weapons, is present unmatched perspectives into our understanding of these areas.
I think the most important takeaway here is awareness, and use of cross referencing in our study on these weapon forms.

Last edited by Jim McDougall; 22nd May 2025 at 03:36 PM.
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