Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

Jim McDougall · 21st February 2017, 05:55 PM

Excellent observations Neil, and thank you! You bring up a most salient point, that while this hilt is 'by the numbers' of Scottish form, it lacks the fine tracing profiling the hilt elements and execution of the piercing of the guard plates. In some hours of poring through resources at hand, I did find that this blade corresponds to some of the basket hilt cavalry swords of the 1740s-50s (Darling, 1974, p.85). Also, my notion that English made hilts were typically 'plain' was clearly misplaced. I had forgotten that even the later conical pommel basket hilts made by Drury and Jeffries had pierced guard plates.

The lack of the wrist guard as you well point out does not make this hilt 'English', as this feature, though often seen on Scottish hilts, was not invariably the case. As hilts were being made for basket hilts which were destined for British use, it would seem such a feature may have been added in accord with maker or designation of those ordering them. The hilts were produced by makers who supplied the fitters or assemblers (Drury and Jeffries were getting hilts from Birmingham but they were in London).

Going to the interesting number on the pommel (Mazansky IID, d13, a 'tall bun') it would seem this is indeed a 'trooper' number. These type of numbers were often applied, but when 'officially' done by the armourer were typically placed on the hilt guards and along with regimental designation with the trooper number below with a slash separating from the unit letters or number. Being placed singly and on the pommel to me would suggest this was done 'in the field' , this a strong suggestion this sword having been on campaign .

The note by Will regarding French basket hilts is interesting, and actually many of the Jacobite troops of Prince Charles were assembled in France as there were many who had fled there during these times. There were actually many arms being gathered there as well, as many as 2400 swords along with guns etc. which were being transported from France (but did not reach Scotland, as noted by research by Ibrahiim in 2015 discussion notes).
Mazansky (p.188) notes that according to Stephen Wood there were basket hilts produced in France for exiled Jacobites later in the 18th c. but this has not been substantiated. It seems reasonable that many basket hilts may have been serviced or even produced in France as they were a stalwart ally of Scotland vs Great Britain, and numerous examples have blades or devices of French origin .

21st February 2017, 05:55 PM	#12
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	Excellent observations Neil, and thank you! You bring up a most salient point, that while this hilt is 'by the numbers' of Scottish form, it lacks the fine tracing profiling the hilt elements and execution of the piercing of the guard plates. In some hours of poring through resources at hand, I did find that this blade corresponds to some of the basket hilt cavalry swords of the 1740s-50s (Darling, 1974, p.85). Also, my notion that English made hilts were typically 'plain' was clearly misplaced. I had forgotten that even the later conical pommel basket hilts made by Drury and Jeffries had pierced guard plates. The lack of the wrist guard as you well point out does not make this hilt 'English', as this feature, though often seen on Scottish hilts, was not invariably the case. As hilts were being made for basket hilts which were destined for British use, it would seem such a feature may have been added in accord with maker or designation of those ordering them. The hilts were produced by makers who supplied the fitters or assemblers (Drury and Jeffries were getting hilts from Birmingham but they were in London). Going to the interesting number on the pommel (Mazansky IID, d13, a 'tall bun') it would seem this is indeed a 'trooper' number. These type of numbers were often applied, but when 'officially' done by the armourer were typically placed on the hilt guards and along with regimental designation with the trooper number below with a slash separating from the unit letters or number. Being placed singly and on the pommel to me would suggest this was done 'in the field' , this a strong suggestion this sword having been on campaign . The note by Will regarding French basket hilts is interesting, and actually many of the Jacobite troops of Prince Charles were assembled in France as there were many who had fled there during these times. There were actually many arms being gathered there as well, as many as 2400 swords along with guns etc. which were being transported from France (but did not reach Scotland, as noted by research by Ibrahiim in 2015 discussion notes). Mazansky (p.188) notes that according to Stephen Wood there were basket hilts produced in France for exiled Jacobites later in the 18th c. but this has not been substantiated. It seems reasonable that many basket hilts may have been serviced or even produced in France as they were a stalwart ally of Scotland vs Great Britain, and numerous examples have blades or devices of French origin .