[A. G. Maisey]

Thank you very much for your most recent post Kulino.

Please permit me to assure you that you have not "trespassed" at all, rather, you have said more in this post # 37 than you have said in all your previous posts, and I most sincerely thank you for this.

Now I believe understand your orientation and understanding of the keris, and that is a giant leap forward for me.

I know the original Ronggowarsito work, but do not have a copy, I have not seen the Hartokretarto transliteration into roman text.

My understanding of the Ronggowarsito work is that it takes the theosophical approach that grew in popularity amongst the Javanese elites as colonial domination became more oppressive. This understanding has been gained second hand from discussion with a relative who had intense interest in Javanese theosophy. As with virtually all writings by Karaton pujanggas, the content of this work was not drawn from thin air, nor from imagination, it came from earlier sources that were then re-interpreted by R.Ng. Ronggowarsito. My understanding is that the major source was an earlier manuscript from a Pajang pujangga. I do not recall all the details, and as I said, this is second hand knowledge and as such, could be flawed. It is something I have never pursued.

R. Ng. Hartokretarto was involved in the production of a pre-WWII magazine that was printed in Solo between about 1920 and 1940, I believe that WWII put an end to it. This magazine was called "Kumandhang Theosofie" ( An Echo of Theosophy), I have seen photocopies of this magazine, I think perhaps the originals of these photocopies might be in the Mangkunegaraan Library in Solo.

The Solo elites were of course loyal to the Dutch, this attitude was still very much alive in the 1960's and 1970's, but it has faded into history in recent years. I know one lady who was born in the late 1930's who was educated in a Catholic school that was very much Dutch-Catholic, and whose way of thinking, even now, is very much Dutch orientated. She collects all types of porcelain that have pictures of windmills. Not interested in anything else, only windmills. If they were real windmills, her house would fly away.

But is this acceptance of Dutch values a rebellious attitude?
Well, that probably depends upon the way in which a person thinks.
Children rebel against authority.
Adults accept the authority and work around it, or with it.
There is a Javanese saying that translates as:-
"Do not try to lift more than you can carry"
A core value of the Javanese persona is "nrima" : to accept without protest or to resign oneself to something; the concept being that all is pre-ordained and to attempt to change that which God has arranged is not only arrogant, but also stupid, and a price will have to be paid. The world turns.
The elites of Solo are probably more Javanese than anybody else in the Land of Jawa.

Kulino, you have voiced the opinion that the cult of the keris was not in existence during the time you were receiving instruction from your teacher.

I would take a slightly different perspective in relation to that matter:-

in Jawa Tengah, the "cult of the keris" has never been dead, it has always been a part of the core values of Javanese culture, however, it is only since perhaps the mid -1970's that we have seen an increase in interest in the keris, and only since the monetary crisis of the late 1990's that a popular interest has developed. There are a number of reasons for that popular interest, and I would prefer not to comment further on this.

I love this passage in your post:-

" At risk of sounding patronising, general public should not be give open access to all information. If people really want to know, answers will be given. Only when questions are asked. Not the full extent of all possible information because this needs to filled with understanding, maybe even in a different cultural context."

I could well have written this myself. It is exactly, precisely the way in which Javanese knowledge is transmitted, and sometimes, very, very rarely, the way in which the questions are answered is not from any earthly source.

The real reason for restricting knowledge is to protect the person who does not have the foundation understanding to permit him to use the knowledge in an appropriate way. Without that foundation understanding the new knowledge itself cannot be understood, thus it just becomes so many words that lack meaning. But this also must be considered:- only those who are able to use the knowledge appropriately will be able to understand that knowledge:- for the uninitiated it is only words, for the initiated it becomes knowledge.

Kulino, your comments regarding the understanding of pamor motifs reflect your approach to keris study, and I now understand that the way you have approached this is through a Javanese belief system that owes much to the influence of Sufic mysticism on Javanese culture, which began in the mid-1500's, and probably reached its peak in late colonial times.

Some of this belief has become popular belief and as such is more or less common knowledge, some of this belief can be considered as restricted knowledge.

After review of what you have written since the beginning of this thread, I have formed my own opinion that your Solo teacher held an attitude that the time in history had come for some things that were a part of his culture to be passed into the bank of world knowledge to ensure that those things were not lost forever.

On the other hand, your Jogja friend seems to have the attitude that when the purpose for any knowledge no longer exists, it quite acceptable for that knowledge to disappear.

I make no comment either for or against these two opposing opinions.

I leave it to you to form your own opinion of the way in which you should act. This way will be shown to you by the peace of your inner feelings (kabatinan).