Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post - cultures moderation tips for keris lovers

nechesh · 10th September 2005, 05:18 PM

Purwacarita, i am a little confused at this point. You began this thread with a story about a fellow Indonesian who obtained a keris that was "mahared" at Rp, 10 mil.(approx. $1000 USD). This seems to be a common practice in Indonesia as i have been on many websites from the area that SELL keris this way with the PRICE labelled as "mahar". I am aware that there are no doubt still Indonesians who may be fortunate enough to recieve a keris as pusaka from a relative, but is this truly the most COMMON way in which keris change hands TODAY in Indonesia or is it more likely to occur as it did with your friend in the story?
BTW, the use of a local currency to obtain goods is not an invention of Capitalism. Communist and Socialist countries also use currency and even so-called primitive cultures commonly found particular items (shells, beads, etc.) which served as a form of money. On a purely idealistic level i do tend to agree with you that "Capitalism is not bad, it most results positively to freedom, independence etc. Mahar culture at the other hand most results to loyalty, commitment, etc." , but in practice i am not convinced it actually works out that way. And with great respect to the long histories and cultures of the Indonesian people you are CURRENTLY living in a very Capitalistic society. People are people after all, and whether they are capable of maintaining any commitment to the spirit and nature of the keris they have obtained is probably more determined by their personal understanding of "Will" than the manner in which they obtained their keris. From where i sit it is basically impossible for me to receive a keris through mahar. I am therefore forced into using money to obtain my keris. This is not, believe me, because of any great love or appreciation for the system of Capitalism. Yet when i receive a keris i do my best to pay respect to it an try to determine the "will" of the blade, if any. If i understand you correctly it is your stance that a keris which is sold for money no longer holds any esorteric properties. If that is your belief i have personally found it to be untrue. Many bought keris still resonate strongly and i don't need psychics, dukkuns or Coggins machines to prove it to me.

I am still really interested in your definitions of the terms perdikan and gurindam. It can only be helpful to the points you are trying to make if we understand all your words.

10th September 2005, 05:18 PM	#29
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Purwacarita, i am a little confused at this point. You began this thread with a story about a fellow Indonesian who obtained a keris that was "mahared" at Rp, 10 mil.(approx. $1000 USD). This seems to be a common practice in Indonesia as i have been on many websites from the area that SELL keris this way with the PRICE labelled as "mahar". I am aware that there are no doubt still Indonesians who may be fortunate enough to recieve a keris as pusaka from a relative, but is this truly the most COMMON way in which keris change hands TODAY in Indonesia or is it more likely to occur as it did with your friend in the story? BTW, the use of a local currency to obtain goods is not an invention of Capitalism. Communist and Socialist countries also use currency and even so-called primitive cultures commonly found particular items (shells, beads, etc.) which served as a form of money. On a purely idealistic level i do tend to agree with you that "Capitalism is not bad, it most results positively to freedom, independence etc. Mahar culture at the other hand most results to loyalty, commitment, etc." , but in practice i am not convinced it actually works out that way. And with great respect to the long histories and cultures of the Indonesian people you are CURRENTLY living in a very Capitalistic society. People are people after all, and whether they are capable of maintaining any commitment to the spirit and nature of the keris they have obtained is probably more determined by their personal understanding of "Will" than the manner in which they obtained their keris. From where i sit it is basically impossible for me to receive a keris through mahar. I am therefore forced into using money to obtain my keris. This is not, believe me, because of any great love or appreciation for the system of Capitalism. Yet when i receive a keris i do my best to pay respect to it an try to determine the "will" of the blade, if any. If i understand you correctly it is your stance that a keris which is sold for money no longer holds any esorteric properties. If that is your belief i have personally found it to be untrue. Many bought keris still resonate strongly and i don't need psychics, dukkuns or Coggins machines to prove it to me. I am still really interested in your definitions of the terms perdikan and gurindam. It can only be helpful to the points you are trying to make if we understand all your words.