Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post - Tourist trinkets? Bich'Hwa, Khatar, Jambiya

Emanuel · 17th December 2010, 02:25 AM

I'll try to address some of your points.

The narrowness of Indian hilts has been discussed many times. In most cases we can either accept that the people who intended to use the katar (jamadhar) were of smaller stature, with smaller hands. In some cases also note that weapons were made for children.

The khanjar is representative of Qajar era styles. "Jambiya" was historically attributed to the Saudi/Yemeni variety of curved daggers. Khanjar is a broader term used in Oman and other Arab speaking or even Muslim countries outside the Arabian Peninsula.

About wootz, while there may be evidence of its use by Vikings this was very limited and through trade. Perhaps you are confusing with pattern-welded "damascus". Damascus is often used as an umbrella term for most any metal with a strong pattern. It can be mechanical or chemical. The first consists of forge welding steels with different carbon contents, twisting and folding them in order to produce a more or less homogeneous bar of steel with the same carbon content all the way through. When etched, the different types of steel show a different shade, depending on carbon content. This technology was indeed used by Celts, Vikings, and almost every other steel using culture on the planet.

The second, wootz, is "crucible steel" or essentially cast steel first produced in India ~2000 years ago. The cooling cycle of molten steel was controlled to produce a very specific crystalline structure in the steel. The pattern comes from this chemical structure, not from the mechanical welding of different metals. It was completely homogeneous and very hard.

Hope this helps, all of these points have been discussed many times on the forum and there are lots of threads on wootz and Indian weapons.

Regards,
Emanuel

- Some pics from Oriental Arms -
The top one is a wootz ingot
The next two pictures are of wootz katar (jamadhar) and shamshir blades
The bottom is of a pattern-welded yataghan blade with the "Turkish ribbon" pattern

17th December 2010, 02:25 AM	#11
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	I'll try to address some of your points. The narrowness of Indian hilts has been discussed many times. In most cases we can either accept that the people who intended to use the katar (jamadhar) were of smaller stature, with smaller hands. In some cases also note that weapons were made for children. The khanjar is representative of Qajar era styles. "Jambiya" was historically attributed to the Saudi/Yemeni variety of curved daggers. Khanjar is a broader term used in Oman and other Arab speaking or even Muslim countries outside the Arabian Peninsula. About wootz, while there may be evidence of its use by Vikings this was very limited and through trade. Perhaps you are confusing with pattern-welded "damascus". Damascus is often used as an umbrella term for most any metal with a strong pattern. It can be mechanical or chemical. The first consists of forge welding steels with different carbon contents, twisting and folding them in order to produce a more or less homogeneous bar of steel with the same carbon content all the way through. When etched, the different types of steel show a different shade, depending on carbon content. This technology was indeed used by Celts, Vikings, and almost every other steel using culture on the planet. The second, wootz, is "crucible steel" or essentially cast steel first produced in India ~2000 years ago. The cooling cycle of molten steel was controlled to produce a very specific crystalline structure in the steel. The pattern comes from this chemical structure, not from the mechanical welding of different metals. It was completely homogeneous and very hard. Hope this helps, all of these points have been discussed many times on the forum and there are lots of threads on wootz and Indian weapons. Regards, Emanuel - Some pics from Oriental Arms - The top one is a wootz ingot The next two pictures are of wootz katar (jamadhar) and shamshir blades The bottom is of a pattern-welded yataghan blade with the "Turkish ribbon" pattern Attached Images Last edited by Emanuel; 17th December 2010 at 02:36 AM.