[marto suwignyo]

Thank you for your response, Tim.

I regret that you found my writing style excessively and unpleasantly forceful, most especially so as I am keenly aware of the sometimes quite distasteful remarks which have been exchanged in discussions regarding the keris, and I have attempted to keep my own contributions purely objective. I will apologise in advance for any future offence I may cause to you, as I have already taken several steps back from my normal style of discussion, and have difficulty in identifying how I can make a point in a less forceful manner.


You raise the question:-
Why are so called scholars happy to accept the Hindu origin of the "sarpa tapa" and "sarpa lumaka" and a whole host of other Hindu cultral icons such as Naga,Singa,Genesha often shown on the base of the blade.I even have pictures of a Ganesha, carved bone handle from Bali, and yet we are having problems with this handle which as far as I can see is clearly making a sign with her hand, if other Hindu deities are in accepted use why not Durga?Tim


I think I understand your confusion in this matter, but if we look carefully at the points you have raised, I believe we will come to realisation that we are looking at entirely different questions.The Hindu symbolism that we find in motifs or iconology associated with the keris are often very clear, and have been accepted within Javanese society for extended periods of time. In the case of our wadon handle we have a female figure that we wish to claim as a representation of Durga, but which is not generally recognised within Javanese society as a representation of Durga. I have spent a very long time involved in the study of the keris, and much of that time has been spent in Java. I had never heard the concept of a "veiled Durga" applied to this wadon handle until perhaps about ten years ago, and when I did hear it, it was not in Java, but in a western context.

I have no objection to keris enthusiasts in western societies referring to this handle style as a veiled Durga. We have plenty of precedents for the giving of names concocted in a western context, to keris and components of keris, so if western collectors want to call this handle style a "veiled Durga", let us by all means do so. At least we will all know what we are talking about.

However, if we set out to demonstrate that this handle style was intended by the people who used it, to represent Durga, then we have an entirely different problem.

To provide the evidence needed to allow us to mount a reasonable argument that this handle style is in fact a represenation of Durga, then we need to apply the tools of academic enquiry, as much as those tools may interfere with our fondly held beliefs.
There is a difference between opinion and proof, and to date, all we have in respect of this handle is opinion.

TUAN CD

Please permit me to thank you most sincerely for your well intentioned advice.

Undoubtedly it will come as a surprise to you that not only did I read the Knick-Bumke article, but I also carried out analysis of that article in an attempt to determine how the content could be used to substantiate the claim that the wadon handle is in fact a representation of Durga. Regretably I was unable to extract such proof from my analysis.

I do not believe that I stated that Jensen, Kerner and de Marval should not be given credit for their work. In fact I hold Martin Kerner in high regard, and count him as a friend. I actually collaborated with him in a minor way in the production of his brilliant analytical work on the origin of early keris.
I accept that you feel you are doing me a service by illuminating my percieved inadequacies, but I would ask that if you wish to continue to try to assist me in this way that you please refrain from misquoting me.

Allow me to compliment you upon your erudition in respect of the wayang. Perhaps you may care to continue our education by outlining the way in which the original Javanese dieties were given Hindu names and the new wayang characters became a syncretic representation of both the old Javanese dieties and the new Hindu ones.Then of course we had the influence of Islam, the influence of the courts , the influence of Christianity, and in latter days the influence of the new Indonesia. Fascinating stuff. The wayang serves as an almost perfect example of the ability of the Javanese to absorb, alter, combine and create something new. Just as the Durga of the early classical period was changed into the Betari Durga of the wayang. Possibly you may care to open a new thread, so that the thread content will be relevent to the matter under discussion?

I recognise that the typical Javanese representation of Betari Durga since Kediri has incorporated Kali, however, I fail to see how this is material in the identification of the wadon handle as Durga.

In my earlier post I suggested several criteria that could be satisfied if we wish to demonstrate that this wadon handle is a representation of Durga.

In fact, I believe we should be willing to accept any evidence that this handle is a representation of Durga, provided that the evidence supplied is credible, objective and verifiable.Not just opinion.