Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

tuancd · 20th June 2005, 02:47 PM

Hi! everybody

I've been away, sorry to have miss the discussion.
I've read that you have buried Durga in a collective agreement.

I still wanted to show you the two pictures and "argue" a little bit more about what have been said and stated.

First Kerner is not the only one. Sier Jensen present two keris with Durga hulu
(the pictures attached)
the one with stones is before 1618 (date of collection)
the second one collected 1676.

So according what Marto says it could be earlier than 1525...

And Gaspar de Marval (author of "le monde du kriss") talks also about it and has one.

Not to mention your servitor in my article about keris Handles in Kaos n°1.

Now about the fact that it is Durga or not.

Hinduism in java as always been adapting it self from the India Hinduism mixing it with local believes and ancestor traditions. Now It is also true that al statues of Durga have a different "look" from this handle. cf the very good study about Durga (http://www.asianart.com/articles/durga/index.html).
But one statue from the 15th century has only two arms. it come from java east and should be earlier than our handle.

Now if we talk about the veil. Only two goddess have a veil in the Javanese syncretism. Loro Kidul (mostly found in south and East java) and Durga. Nobody will make me believe that it is just a veil to follow Islam rule regarding women (to modern to apply and more over in java). The said goddess wear veil
because they have been stricken by a bad spell or a plague as punishment.

Now about the fingers position. You have two kind of interpretation
first it the Indian Durga image coming from India
illustration n°3
second is the Karana mudra to expel demons and other bad spirits that I have observed on many handles.
illustration n°4

20th June 2005, 02:47 PM	#87
tuancd Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Paris - Bruxelles Posts: 32	Hi! everybody I've been away, sorry to have miss the discussion. I've read that you have buried Durga in a collective agreement. I still wanted to show you the two pictures and "argue" a little bit more about what have been said and stated. First Kerner is not the only one. Sier Jensen present two keris with Durga hulu (the pictures attached) the one with stones is before 1618 (date of collection) the second one collected 1676. So according what Marto says it could be earlier than 1525... And Gaspar de Marval (author of "le monde du kriss") talks also about it and has one. Not to mention your servitor in my article about keris Handles in Kaos n°1. Now about the fact that it is Durga or not. Hinduism in java as always been adapting it self from the India Hinduism mixing it with local believes and ancestor traditions. Now It is also true that al statues of Durga have a different "look" from this handle. cf the very good study about Durga (http://www.asianart.com/articles/durga/index.html). But one statue from the 15th century has only two arms. it come from java east and should be earlier than our handle. Now if we talk about the veil. Only two goddess have a veil in the Javanese syncretism. Loro Kidul (mostly found in south and East java) and Durga. Nobody will make me believe that it is just a veil to follow Islam rule regarding women (to modern to apply and more over in java). The said goddess wear veil because they have been stricken by a bad spell or a plague as punishment. Now about the fingers position. You have two kind of interpretation first it the Indian Durga image coming from India illustration n°3 second is the Karana mudra to expel demons and other bad spirits that I have observed on many handles. illustration n°4 Attached Images Last edited by tuancd; 20th June 2005 at 07:38 PM.