Help with Identification please
 

Hello all,
I bought a keris recently but am not sure of origin.
I've had a look in van Zonneveld and a search in the posts.
Any help in identifying would be greatly appreciated
thanks

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/u...n/keris001.jpg

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/u...n/keris003.jpg

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/u...n/keris006.jpg

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/u...n/keris007.jpg

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/u...n/keris016.jpg

Here's an interesting link :
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=soldier+keris

search for soldier keris and you find a lot to read about your keris here in the forum.

Rick and Henk have put you on the right path. These are commonly believed to be souvenir keris brought home by Dutch soldiers around the turn of the 19th-20th century from the island of Madura.

Thanks everyone.

That looks like a pretty good, but degraded blade .

The pamor is interesting and bold .

I also have one exactly like your example . :)

I might have a go at trying to clean the blade up following some of the posts here on Keris cleaning (but maybe without the arsenic). When I was in Malaysia I spoke with a Keris maker in Kuala Kangsar who mentioned using a tamarind solution.
So far I have managed to clean up slightly rust speckled blades and strip gun blueing (the gun blueing strip was not intentional, left it on too long).
When I get a free stretch of time I'll take some photos.
If the keris cleaning process by a novice is not advisable please let me know, all advice is appreciated.

Pineapple juice; but I'd think about it a bit before diving in .
The blade may be out of stain; but a real cleaning will remove much of the 'patina' .

Yeah Rick, it might, but sometimes with these older blades you'll find that what happens is that most of the rust comes off and you reach a point where the blade is pretty clean, then it starts to colour up again and if you're not too much of a fanatic, you can get a reasonable stain job straight out of the pineapple juice without using arsenic. I suspect that what might happen is that the residual arsenic is activated by the juice.

Just remember to brush daily with a soft toothbrush under running water.

Would you try to degrease it before a pineapple juice soak, Alan ?

Or no ?

Definitely yes, Rick.

This is a standard part of the process.

I usually do it in the kitchen sink with warm water, dishwash liquid and soft toothbrush, then I rinse off and dry thoroughly before putting into the juice.

No solvents ?
I have a Sumatran/Bugis blade that I cannot get free of oil; no matter what I do to it, including acetone .
I have used everything ; and still it smells of scented oil !!
If it still smells of oil; then it is not degreased; no ?









Sorry to digress ...... :o

No mate.

If the ferric material is porous the oil penetrates down into the body of the blade. You'll never get rid of the smell.

You could wash a blade off with turps, I suppose, acetone tends to dry a bit too quickly for my liking, but all I ever use is dishwash --- when I think its necessary

I've got blades that I've stripped and stained and oiled with kenongo/cendono, and then I come back 12 months later and they still smell of the oil that was on them before I cleaned them up.

I suggest you ignore the smell. Just give it a scrub with dishwash and go ahead with the job.

Iff you realy want to do the job as good as it can get, dont use acetone beter use apolar(non polar) solvents, like hexane, petrolether, toluene and so on. Also you can "cook"or boil the blade in water and let it cool down... afther that lot of dirt wil come out of the pores of the blade. But do reconsider about the state of the blade before you try to do this. Also NaOH (sodium hydroxide) can be used to degrease or break oil or fat like dirt on the blade.

regards Ab

Highly technical Kulbuntet, and highly unnecessary.

I've been doing this now for a very long time, I have never had a failure --- I mean not ever, not even one time --- and all I've ever done is as I've just told it.

I do vary things a bit sometimes, depending on the blade. If its really heavily rusted I use vinegar first until the bulk of the rust is off. This saves money, because vinegar is much cheaper than pineapple juice.Vinegar is a bit quicker than pineapple juice too.

If a blade obviously doesn't have any oil on it, I don't wash it at all.

Cleaning and staining a blade is not rocket science, it takes just a little bit of knowledge and just a little bit of experience to produce a pretty decent job.You don't need to get all technical, things will work out anyway, if you just let them.

Interesting posts.
I have at my disposal (listed in ease of obtainability in NZ):
pineapple syrup (canned pineapple slices in syrup)
malt and white vinegar
cooking tamarind solution
methylated spirits (denatured alcohol)
kerosene
isopropyl alcohol (70% solution)
I feel a potential project coming on. I'll have a look for posts on cleaning and depending on availability of time try and use from the above ingredients to clean up the blade.
Any pointers greatly appreciated.
thanks

Yep, that is just what I did Alan; I was amazed at the persistence of the smell through all that preliminary stuff .

I think David had a go at that blade if I recall . :confused:

My response is interpolated:-

Interesting posts.
I have at my disposal (listed in ease of obtainability in NZ):

pineapple syrup (canned pineapple slices in syrup)
YOU CAN FORGET THIS.
WHAT YOU NEED IS PINEAPPLE JUICE.I'M IN AUSTRALIA AND I USE GOLDEN CIRCLE, WHICH USED TO EXPORT TO NZ.GOLDEN CIRCLE IS NOW OWNED BY HIENZ FOODS A US COMPANY, YOU MIGHT LIKE TO RING THEM AND ASK IF PINEAPPLE JUICE IS AVAILABLE IN NZ

malt and white vinegar
CHEAPEST WHITE VINEGAR IS OK.
IF ITS A BIT TOO ACIDIC, WHICH YOU CAN GAUGE BY THE SPEED WITH WHICH IT REMOVES RUST, YOU CAN ADD A BIT OF WATER TO DILUTE IT


cooking tamarind solution
NEVER USED IT ON KERIS
BUT ITS ACIDIC AND WOULD WORK AS WOULD ANY OTHER MILDLY ACIDIC LIQUID
I HAVE USED PINEAPPLE JUICE FOR YEARS AND I LIKE IT BECAUSE IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW LONG YOU LEAVE THE BLADE IN THE J8ICE YOU WILL NEVER DAMAGE IT.


methylated spirits (denatured alcohol)
METHO IS NOT A REAL GOOD DEGREASER
YOU SHOULD ALSO BE ABLE TO BUY MINERAL TURPENTINE (TURPS) ITS PRETTY HARD TO PAINT WITH ENAMELS IF DON'T HAVE TURPS.
BUT AS I'VE ALREADY SAID:- ALL YOU REALLY NEED IS DISHWASH, AND YOU CAN GET THAT ANYWHERE


kerosene
FORGET KERO


isopropyl alcohol (70% solution)
NEVER HEARD OF IT


I feel a potential project coming on. I'll have a look for posts on cleaning and depending on availability of time try and use from the above ingredients to clean up the blade.
Any pointers greatly appreciated.
THIS SUBJECT HAS BEEN ADDRESSED MANY TIMES IN THIS FORUM
ITS A DEAD SIMPLE JOB AND ONLY NEEDS DEAD SIMPLE MATERIALS AND PROCEDURES.

It came up OK didn't it Rick?

This is a pic of a Bali blade that has been in pineapple juice for about a week. It has been taken out most days and scrubbed with an old toothbrush, the hard bits of rust have been picked off with an old file ground to a point, it has been scrubbed with sink cleaner, steel wool, and a scotchbrite pad.

The pic was taken today after it had been removed from the pineapple juice and just rinsed off with water.

As you can see, the pamor has started to come up, and for some people this would be an adequate finish. I will give it a couple more days of soaking, then I'll hit with lime juice and arsenic, and the end result will be that the ferric material will be a lot darker, however, if you don't like handling arsenic, or cannot obtain it, this finish would be a whole lot better than the red-rust all-over finish it had before I started.

Ignore the blade shape, its distorted because I took it at an angle so the pamor could be seen.

Hi Alan,
There wasn't much contrast to begin with; but yes, it did come up a bit .

Look at the corner for exotic fruit juice in large supermarkets (most likely available in tetrapacks). However, make sure to get pure juice rather than diluted stuff with added sugar, etc. (100% juice from concentrate is ok IME.)

This juice still contains a lot of fruit particles but can be utilized as is for cleaning purposes. Filtering doesn't work - if you let a pack stand for a long time, you can decant maybe 2/3 of the volume as reasonably clear juice. I'm not convinced that this extra effort really helps the arsenic restaining though...

Regards,
Kai

Out shopping today and found the following on special.

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/u...lean/juice.jpg

Looks good .
Got something the right size to soak the blade in ?

A suspension immersion tube has been playing on my mind.
Was thinking of cutting the top straight off one of the packs and suspending the keris (with the handle wrapped in cling wrap/gladwrap, I've been poring over posts) but that might be a waste of pineapple juice. Am going to hunt around for a couple of clear plastic drink bottles that'll just take the blade. Maybe cut the bottom off one and the top off the other, sleeve them together, couple of clear plastic bags (one in the other), fill with juice and see what happens. Oh and sellotape coz it's always useful.
The handle is on very tight so am not wanting to separate at the moment.

I don't know where you live; but if you have a discount store that sells cheap art glass like our TJ Maxx, or Marshall's you can sometimes find inexpensive glass vases with a deep V shape that can be got cheaply . ;)

There is also PVC pipe with a cap glued on one end . :)

Yeah, that Golden Circle is what I use. For many years it was not possible to buy it without added sugar, and that's what I used for a very long time. Works just as well, but in hot weather the mold forms up on the surface quicker.

If you can find one, a wall paper trough is the best soak utensil I know of.

Rick's suggestion of pvc pipe with caps glued on works well too--- but once you glue the caps on you cut it in half lengthwise.4"X2" square section pipe is the best.

If all else fails all you need do is make a long narrow box out of corrugated cardboard and line it with plactic. That black garden plastic is good, but a couple plastic garbage bags will work OK too.

I am inclined to use a canned M'sian product of pure pineapple juice that is easily found here in S'pore. Cant remember the brand though, failing which theres always freshly squeezed lime juice, that would be good too.

When I am terribly short of time... as is often the case... I have tried using a dishwashing paste that contains lemon or lime extracts... dont know whether you have it where you are... brand name Axion... add in some water to soften the paste up and slather a layer of it on the blade... wait for for a while.. longer for a deeper cleansing action... anything from 1/2 hour to an hour or more... then a good scrub with a toothbrush under running water would clean away grease & much rust. But be aware that it would whiten the blade...

For a cheap container you may wish to consider slitting lengthwise one half of one of those huge coke, pet bottles. Then rest in on something stable..

Thanks for the suggestions everyone, I'll keep an eye out for the items when I'm next at the shops. I have the kit just about ready to start and will take photos to post.
I'll try and make from items readily available around the house.

You cannot properly clean a blade unless you remove the hilt.

That is the first thing you must do.

Its a very easy thing to do, you just heat the sorsoran gently and let the heat build up while you work the hilt backwards and forth to free it. The technique has been mentioned in this Forum a number of times.A candle or small kerosene lamp is probably the best thing to use for this.

It is easy. It is essential.

If you do not want to do this, you had best forget about pineapple juice and soaking. You can do a partial clean by repeatedly brushing with lime juice or lemon juice. It does not do anything like a decent job, but at least it is better that the high probability of damage to hilt or mendak by trying to clean using the soak method, with the hilt attached.