Ethnographic Arms & Armour

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-   -   Massai/african wooden lance or oceanian ? (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=29133)

Marius66 27th August 2023 10:29 AM

Massai/african wooden lance or oceanian ?
 
3 Attachment(s)
Good day dear members,

I have this long wooden lance,
coming from africa , massai/Kenya and really really old said the seller
But I saw this weekend in an ethnographic museum oceanian ''clubs'' and maybe it is polynesian/oceanian..

Can specialists help for fix it please.

Kind regards

mariusgmioc 27th August 2023 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marius66 (Post 284222)
Good day dear members,

I have this long wooden lance,
coming from africa , massai/Kenya and really really old said the seller
But I saw this weekend in an ethnographic museum oceanian ''clubs'' and maybe it is polynesian/oceanian..

Can specialists help for fix it please.

Kind regards

I do not know what this is but I am pretty sure that it isn't a Masai spear. Masai use various types of iron-tipped spears.

Tim Simmons 27th August 2023 02:29 PM

I have a feeling it is an African paddle.

drac2k 27th August 2023 04:03 PM

Great piece whatever it is ;maybe a dance spear used it ritual ceremonies. I like the carving, the patination and everything else about it! What are the dimensions??

Marius66 27th August 2023 04:41 PM

Hello , thank a lot everybody for the reply !
Looks a mix between a Solomon club
and a iron Congolese mariage-trade money ??

It is 65,8 inches/167 cm long

Ceremonial item more than an original paddle
I wonder if we could use it as a
war club ?

Kind regards

milandro 27th August 2023 05:47 PM

I too doubt this is a spear, ritual or otherwise.

This looks like a canoe paddle. Where it was made is a very difficult to say, I have seen some similar design which were Brazilian but also from Kalimantan so the range of possibilities is very wide, but , in my view, absolutely not a spear

drac2k 27th August 2023 07:36 PM

Has the tip been reshaped? The only reason why I question the paddle theory is because of the narrowness of the majority of the portion that would be in the water; not viable for the maximum push of your paddle. Also, the length of the paddle seems excessive as well as the girth of the shaft; while I've seen paddles that long, usually the shafts are tapered and narrower, to cut down on the weight. The point at the end of the oar doesn't quite make sense to me either.

Tim Simmons 28th August 2023 07:32 AM

I also think the tip may have been altered to look like a spear.

https://www-ft-com.ezp.lib.cam.ac.uk...c-0b7776d8a026

Marius66 28th August 2023 05:49 PM

Yes maybe a broken-reshaped ceremonial paddle,

Here a Dayak-kalimantan borneo model from Mandarin Mansion,

As Milandro suggested, thank you !

The ''Basics'' carvings look like.

Marius66 28th August 2023 05:50 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Here the pictures

Peter B. 28th August 2023 07:20 PM

I would also say definitely not Maasai. Neither form nor ornament suit Maasai.

Akanthus 28th August 2023 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc (Post 284224)
I do not know what this is but I am pretty sure that it isn't a Masai spear. Masai use various types of iron-tipped spears.

Yes, right. I don't want to hunt lions with this wood thing.....:(

Marius66 28th August 2023 10:00 PM

5 Attachment(s)
And back in Africa...

A ceremonial wooden spear from Congo ( democratic republic of Congo )
All wood made , tip only is made of metal

drac2k 29th August 2023 03:48 AM

Could it be like this spear, only missing the metal tip?

Marius66 29th August 2023 08:09 AM

Hello,
Thank you Drac2,
I don't think it was metal covered , seems too flat, not a '' real spike''.
But dimensions and global shape are the same

milandro 29th August 2023 09:17 AM

1 Attachment(s)
If one pursues the African road then it may be possible that this is a (or part of it) ceremonial scepter or staff

Compare to this from the Brooklyn Museum

drac2k 29th August 2023 05:29 PM

Could we get a better picture of the point? The patination looks different(lighter), and the carved lines don't look symmetrical, so I'm wondering if the tip broke off and it was reshaped ?

Marius66 30th August 2023 02:52 PM

OK sure,
I will prepare it 👍

Marius66 31st August 2023 05:34 PM

3 Attachment(s)
Here the tip

Marius66 31st August 2023 05:39 PM

3 Attachment(s)
Red-brown patina under black paint -laquer ?
Especially the shaft.

Marius66 31st August 2023 05:45 PM

3 Attachment(s)
Hard wood but not thick enough at the large part I think to be a real club / war paddle...
Ceremonial staff or something, but where from ???

wood seems exotic- islands or something...

Marius66 31st August 2023 06:30 PM

Forum moderator please !!

Marius66 31st August 2023 07:45 PM

Hello,
My pictures please !

Marius66 31st August 2023 08:20 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Last one

Marius66 31st August 2023 09:26 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Sorry, it was this one

Marius66 1st September 2023 01:31 PM

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''head'' of the spear/staff looks like a stylised bird head.
Something like a jabiru stork or a vulture

drac2k 1st September 2023 03:50 PM

Great pictures. To me it reinforces my opinion that it was some type of ceremonial spear, especially at the base of the carved blade that looks like a socket entering the shaft. The tip does look reshaped in my opinion, but it appears that it was done a long time ago.
Still a wonderful piece, whatever it is!

francantolin 1st September 2023 06:43 PM

Interesting ( really strange ) ritual staff or paddle,

Seems old- can be 19th century,

The shaft with the black laquer-paint on a red color reminds me japanese or chinese multi laquered wooden stuff

( Okinawa ceremonial spear-club ... :confused:;) )

The ''bird head'' as you say seems made of palmwood and looks indonesian/Borneo or, Sepik/Papua New Guinea
(Just a feeling.)

Multicultural mix...?..?.

Marius66 3rd September 2023 12:09 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Thank you for the messages !

For the black laquer shaft, don't know if it is
Laquer for aesteticism or some old stuff for protect the wood
( against termites/ xylophages/ humidity ...)?


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