Unusual Dha
 

Hi all, it is my guess that this piece was made for a British officer during occupation of Burma 1858-1937. It has beautiful silver work, ivory handle with a stable crack through and a clip piont bowie blade that is true to the piece. I have also included an imgae of the Burmese blade smiths making knives from the chains used to restrain elephants as this was all that was available to them at the time and of great quality. I now have this piece framed with a Royal Dragoons badge of the same period. Any input or thoughts?


thanks

Gavin

Hi Gavin. Is there something in particular about this piece that makes you suspect it was made for a British officer?

Is that blade with clipped back suggestive of a 'Bowie' what might be indicative of the British association? The British made Bowies became quite popular and possibly the influence might have affected this one?

The blade
 

Hi Andrew and Jim, I do believe the blade to be British influenced as it has a very distinct clip to it. Though I am no expert, all the Dha that I have seen over the years here in Australia have their own style to them, I have seen a good many Dha with drop points but never such a distinct clip. I can only assume, that there being no American influence in Burma, that a British Officer(as I think they would be the only ones either interested, able to influence or afford such a whim).
I would enjoy hearing more about these theories from those more knowledgeable with the history of the Dha.

regards

Gavin

I'm not as confident in assigning an origin to this knife based only on the clip point. Although not a common blade profile in my experience, I have seen it before.

I have one on my desk at the moment, in fact.

I think you have a nice example of an ivory and silver dha hmyaung. Your estimate of age (late 19th-early 20th century) is probably accurate.

Cheers,
Andrew

i also have one to hand, 12 in. blade.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...ew/clipdha.jpg

Nice knife, Kronckew. That's a contemporary knife made by the Kachin.

Two more with "Bowie" blade
 

Not uncommon it would appear.

Hi kronckew

The owner of that Dha must be a mountaineer - The cord wrapping around the scabbard is for climbing! :D

Cheers
Chris

yes, it's a nice decorative line for replacing missing baldrics & i have an outdoor store in a nearby village that has it in various suitable diameters and colours.
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...w/DSCF0002.jpg
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...w/DSCF0001.jpg
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...w/klewang1.jpg
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...ew/gunong2.jpg
adds a bit of colour to the display.
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...onckew/dha.jpg
climbing carabiners make useful adjuncts as well for my 'users' ;) not traditional, but i know it and the cordage won't break. p.s. - i am way past the age & weight where actual climbing was an option.....

and to get back on topic, this all made me remember why i used the fancy climbing rope, i bought the following small dha (5.5 in. blade) shortly after the larger one above in my earlier post, the coloured braided line on it is the original cotton one, which reminded me of climbing rope, the aftermath was the coloured stuff above. better looking to me at least than the plain cotton rope in the photo with the kukri i had used on my 1st dha.
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...clippeddha.jpg
i'd forgot that THIS small one was also a clipped point.

Thanks kahnjar1
 

Thanks for the images. What do you know about these style of blades in the Dha, I have been searching high and low on and off for a while now. How old do these two date, I can see the clip in the top one but it looks newish??? The other, from the angle I cannot see a definate clip, more of a drop. Can you post better images of the profiles of the blade and anything you know about their origins.


regards

Gavin

Kahnjar1, the first of yours i beautiful. A typical Tai (Shan) blade and scabbard profile, but with decoration in a Lanna style. Compare to this one, a dinosaur in size (40.5 inches/103 cm) compared to the dha hmyaung:

http://dharesearch.bowditch.us/Images/Image317.jpg

(full page at http://dharesearch.bowditch.us/0072.htm)

The information and knowledge on these by the dha faction here in our forum is truly amazing!! Its great to see such comprehensive input and truly intriguing to see the complexities of these weapons so well identified.
It seems hard to believe that just a decade ago, there was so little material available on these, and the intensive focus on these by Andrew, Mark and the others has produced such a great resource here.

While I confess embarassingly little knowledge on dhas, it is great to know that when questions arise on them, this is the place to be.

Best regards,
Jim

Hi Folks,

Jim has said it better than I could, but you lot are very knowledgeable. Great thread!

Cheers
Chris

Hi Gavin,
Thanks for the comments. Age of these is probably best addressed by Mark, but I would have thought the all silver one is mid 20th Cent, and the other perhaps early to mid 20th Cent. They are both in great condition,--- and Mark, thanks also for your kind comments on the Shan one.

I should perhaps take this opportunity to let other members know a bit about me. I have been lurking in the wings for a little while, gleening information, mainly about Dha, but also other blades. Dha are my main interest, and to this end I owe a large debt of gratitude to Mark and his Dha Research Archive, also his patience in direct communication,where his ear has been bent several times! I DO like the term "Dhafia" which seems to be used more often lately. Who's going to design a suitable badge?? I think it fits perfectly!
I am located in Christchurch New Zealand.
Regards Stuart (kahnjar1)

Added pic
 

Hi Gavin,
Better angle on that other blade. Sorry about the blueish colour-getting dark here.
Stu

Trying again so you don't need a magnifying glass!!

Dha in General
 

Gavin has asked for info re these. I believe that we are all still learning and that is half the excitment of collecting.
As has been stated elsewhere there is very little written about these swords that appears in the general marketplace. I have found that if you search there are a number of books which refer (at least in a small way) to Dha swords and Knives.
Apart from the Dha Research Archive which is a real goldmine, try the magnificent catalogue produced by the Macau Museum subsequent to their exhibition of the History of Steel in Eastern Asia. Also there is a book by P & E Lewis entitled Peoples of the Golden Triangle. Detailed information of the various Tribes and profusely illustrated including pics of Dha. Stones Glossary also has reference to Dha, as no doubt have many other publications which I am not aware of.
The web also is worth investigating. Check a site called BURMA ISSUES or just key in the particular Tribes name. Lots of pics and historical info here.

Now to the Climbing Rope earlier in this post. If you can get hold of any old SASH CORD as used in the old type "rise and fall" house windows, it is absolutely ideal for replacing Dha Baldrics as it was of cotton weave, not nylon as in the modern stuff. Not easy to get but try your local house wrecker.
Hope this is of some use.
Stuart

Thanks Gents
 

Thanks gents, your input and knowledge is most valuable. Much for me to say, but not a lot of time....
Mark the picture you posted with the Dha research link is that type of blade I have mostly seen on these beautiful weapons, I will look at that link more closely.
Jim, you are absolutely right, this is the place to be. As I endeavour to collect weapons that are a little "different" I know I can rely on valuable input in these forums to reveal much more about them.
Stuart, thanks for bringing your knives to light, I'd almost say our knives are twins...Thanks too for the reference points, I'll be reading lots this Christmas.

Thanks again guys, great studying with you. :D

Gav.

PS can anyone pinpoint a Dha in their research with a clipped point that predates the British occupation of South East Asia? :shrug: :confused:

Regarding to the baldrics, you may ask Cozun. He has a supplier of authentic cotton Dahb baldric from northern Thailand.

IMO: The clip point 's not very new. This piece 's about 16C-18C (central Siam, Ayuthaya period).

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j3...IMG_1965-3.jpg

also this one...
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/d...ture_038-2.jpg

re replacement baldrics:

someone posted a source for 'proper' thai braided cotton baldrics in various colours here - thru cozun's , i might eventually order some of those for my larger dha's; meanwhile the local field expedient of using the nicely decorative nylon vs. the plain waxed (thus difficult to colour) cotton sash cord expedient i could also buy suits me.

i'm not as conservative for unattached non-permanent addons as i would be for reconstuction of the sword itself, i'd like to think an indiginous dha user who would be in need of replacing his baldric would use what he had readily to hand, possibly selecting a more decorative of two alternatives, which is what i'm doing. feel free to flame me for being practical & not being traditional.

i tried some sash cord on my first dha (the one with the kukri above), can't say i like it much. from what i saw in the other thread proper dha baldrics would be more expensive also at 46$ (£23) ea. the large dia. colored climbing rope is £0.80/metre x 5.5m. = £4.40 ea. waxed white cotton sash cord is about £5 for 10m. (will do 2 dha's if careful), unwaxed jute sash cord a bit cheaper & scratchier & not nice...heck, might even try making one out of cotton string, with a circular braid & dye it myself. string is cheap. i also note that halter rope comes in a variety of matls. and colours. will have to pop in to the local saddlery shop next time i go to town....

Hi Gavin,
Thank you very much for acknowledging my post !!:)
All very best regards,
Jim

Thanks Puff
 

Hi Puff, my thoughts on the first two images are that they are drop points not definite clips, with regards to the third one, there appears to be a very small something going on at the end of the blade but the image is not a true profile of the blade so I can't be sure about it. Although the clip is not a new thing to either the USA or England as there are blades from the 12th-13th century around the world with this profile, I would like to see or hear of more conclusive proof as to when a "distinct" clip did enter Burma and it's surrounds.
Can anyone further or conclude these theories?

regards

Gavin

Thanks for the kind words, Jim. The really knowlegeable dha guys are Mark and Ian. Unfortunately, my research and collecting has taken a back seat to increasing family and career responsibilities. As a result, I'm still but a "padawan". :D

Best,
Andrew

You're welcome Andrew!
Though I admire your modesty, in my opinion all who participate in the study in focus to further knowledge and comprehensive information on a topic deserve honorable mention. I was remiss in not mentioning Ian by name as his superb knowledge on the dha and so many weapon forms is key in the core of knowledge here on the forum.

As I strongly believe, we are all students here, and the comprehensive knowledge of all of us is our strength!

Our forum rocks!!!:)

All very best regards,
Jim

Thank you all for the compliments, but objectively I am a mere dilettante. More often than not I find out that something I have said or have been saying is quite wrong. :o Being considered "knowledgeable" is a two edged sword (or better, a prakhan daab ;) ). Personally, I feel that my biggest contribution has been my web-site, which collects information from so many sources better-informed than I, and I learn so much from my fellow forumites here and on Antonio's forum. I am very honored that the Dha Research Archive has become an inspiration to so many collectors and researchers.

PS: you reveal yourself at least, khanjar1! ;) I was wondering if you were over here.

Hi Mark,
Stuart from Christchurch NZ. We have emailed quite often over the last 2 years re Dha. Sorry I thought you knew what my "calling card" was. My apologies. I have been a lurker on this site for quite sometime but until now have not been "active".
Check the thread re the very long Dha--Rakhine?? There are some new pics of the beast. I have it now and am in process of restoration as far as is possible. Will post more pics later when finished, but need a bit of Rayskin to restore the grip. Any ideas?
Stuart

Oh, I recognized you immediately after you gave that info, Stuart. I made a typo least/last. Sort of a biggie, actually. :o I meant the latter (didn't mean to put you on the spot there).

I don't have any ideas about where to get ray skin. Hopefully someone here does. You might check Rich Stein's web site (http://www.geocities.com/alchemyst/nihonto.htm), or send him an e-mail.

No problem Mark. Thought it about time I got vocal about things instead of sitting in the wings. We all have something to offer I think, however small, and the accumulation of knowledge can only be a good thing!
Stuart

Namikawa-heibei is an excellent source for Ray-shin (samegawa) or Samekawa

It is sold in varying grades usually the best grades have very large nodes and symetrical emporor noded,

You can probably go for a lower grade for your restoration. price is from 8,000 - 25,000 yen

http://www.namikawa-ltd.co.jp/cgi-bin/list_e.cgi#27

Service from this company is fantastic

Cheers

Jason