Ethnographic Arms & Armour

Ethnographic Arms & Armour (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/index.php)
-   Ethnographic Weapons (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=2)
-   -   ID help needed (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=96)

Kamil 21st December 2004 11:05 PM

ID help needed
 
1 Attachment(s)
Hi all!
I've watched the discussions here since a long time, and now I need your help. I've just obtained this piece. It's 33,2 cm long; on both sides of the blade there are incised lines, possibly originally all of them inlaid with copper (now most of it missing); next to the lines square brass plates with incised geometrical ornament are fixed on both sides of the blade. The trapezoid element between the blade and the hilt is rather loosely fitted (as is the hilt itself) and on one side, along the edges, it has lines inlaid with copper wire (?). The hilt is made of a dark wood, studded with elements made of silver (or silver coloured) wire. The pommel consist of alternating bone, copper, brass and wooden elements. The construction of the pommel reminds Tuareg daggers - possibly this could be a clue? The provenance of this piece cannot help: it comes reportedly from somewhere in Germany, but this information is by no means certain.

RhysMichael 22nd December 2004 12:13 AM

Interesting piece the fittings do look Taureg but the blade looks similar to a Koummya. I look forward to seeing what it turns out to be

Kamil 22nd December 2004 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhysMichael
Interesting piece the fittings do look Taureg but the blade looks similar to a Koummya. I look forward to seeing what it turns out to be

Well, but the blade begins markedly straight and the point seems slightly re-curved which would remind zirah-bouk - and this is rather impossible. Maybe the piece is composed of parts of two different daggers?

Lee 22nd December 2004 12:58 PM

For me the Moroccan and Tuareg influences are strong, so I'd tend to guess that it is a variant of a koummya, likely from well inland and over the Atlas mountains, where a Tuareg influence would be expected.

cylord21 22nd December 2004 01:45 PM

Brass fittings and silver or white metal inlay points toward Moroccan-Tuareg influence, handle probably made of ebony.

Kamil 22nd December 2004 05:10 PM

As for the handle, it doesn't seem to be of ebony, the wood resembles rather mahogany. And concerning the blade, what about its almost-double curve? I must confess that I haven't seen such kind of koummaya. Does it exist?

dennee 22nd December 2004 08:38 PM

The blade is suggestive of a koummya, as is the pommel, albeit a very schematic representation of the Moroccan prototype.

The brass pommel cap or finial looks something like those on many Manding swords. Perhaps the source is to the south, perhaps Mali, where a lot of Tuareg weapons were produced, but near enough to Moroccan and Mandingo influences (there are Mandingoes in Mali, for example)?

Kamil 23rd December 2004 12:19 AM

I've had a feeling that I saw something similar, and here it is:
http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000809.html
Both pieces share a common type of pommel (and of the hilt, in a way) that slightly resembles that of a gladius. Maybe this type of daggers originated from an area closer to ancient Roman military camps where Roman weapons could have been seen by manufacturers?

dennee 23rd December 2004 03:41 PM

As luck would have it...
 
here's a comparable knife just auctioned on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ADME:B:WN:US:1

Kamil 31st December 2004 11:00 AM

Thank you for your comments. Does anyone know which kind of scabbard was used for this particular type of dagger?


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:33 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.