Ethnographic Arms & Armour

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Raf 9th August 2023 03:03 PM

Chain mail
 
4 Attachment(s)
Examples of medieval European chain mail are hard to find so I was pleased to get this fragment recovered from the mud of the River Thames. It consists in the main of brass rings from a decorative border with some of the mercury gilding still present. The corroded lump appears to contain some iron rings but it seems unlikely that these can be recovered. The links are relatively tiny , around 7 mm and the round wire is so fine that it seems impossible to imagine how they were so neatly riveted.

For information the difference between European and oriental mail is in the way the links are riveted. European mail almost exclusively uses what is called a wedged rivet. The links are punched with a slightly elliptical hole and a wedge shaped piece of metal cut from a flat strip is pushed into the hole from the dished side. The rivet is closed using special heavy duty pliers resulting in a visible rivet head on one side of the link only . Oriental mail uses a domed headed rivet which is visible on both sides of the link.

It has been estimated that a hauberk could require around half a mile of hand drawn wire and take the equivalent of 6 months / man hours to produce so it can never have been cheap . The gilded border could imply a high status armour although the additional cost might have been considered trivial if it added to the perceived value of the armour.

It is difficult to say what it is a fragment of but in the main consists of a triangular section of interlinked rings about 300mm wide . A guess might be the border of a collar , sometimes called a bishops mantle. Difficult to date but maybe thirteenth /fourteenth century ? All opinions welcome.

Raf 10th August 2023 07:11 PM

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As an addendum here are two images relating to the production of medieval mail.
This image shows mail being assembled . Pliars are being used to close the rivet. On his bench is a small anvil and in the foreground what I assume are tweezers to put the tiny rivets in place. The artist has cleverly managed to capture the utterly mind numbing tedium of the work.

Raf 10th August 2023 07:22 PM

This images hows the production of wire by pulling it through a drawplate with holes of gradually reducing sizes. One might be curious as to why he is sitting in his socks on a bench suspended from the ceiling. Apparently the practice was to swing forward , grasp the wire with pliers , kick the swing backwards and use the inertia of the body weight to draw the wire. Clever ?

fernando 10th August 2023 07:57 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Raf (Post 283739)
... This images Shows the production of wire by pulling it through a drawplate with holes of gradually reducing sizes....

You mean ;) ...


.

Raf 10th August 2023 08:03 PM

Thanks Fernando. I muddled up up the images.

Mercer 6th September 2023 04:12 PM

A fragment of chain mail.
 
1 Attachment(s)
I found this fragment of chain mail a few years ago on the foreshore of the river Thames near London Bridge. Not to compare with Raf's magnificent find of the first post!
On finding I took it to Victoria & Albert Museum London as at that time they had a Wednesday morning room where 'finds' could be taken for an opinion.
They said it was of the medieval period and being so fine most likely for the neck or wrist openings.
However, since I have realised it is non-magnetic ie not of ferrous material, iron or steel. Therefore, possibly of limited protection more for comfort and ease of gilding? and show?
It would to appear to be constructed of alternate rows of stamped and riveted iron or steel rings (about 5mm or 1/4 inch internal diameters). Craftsman made indeed!

The One Penny coin is about 20mm or 3/4 inch diameter.
PS I call it Mail, as at the V & A Museum I was corrected when I called it 'Chain Mail', they said it was not made from chains! I know that Claud Blair one time of the Tower of London Armouries always referred to it as 'Mail'. The popular name is chain mail

Victrix 6th September 2023 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercer (Post 284519)
I found this fragment of chain mail a few years ago on the foreshore of the river Thames near London Bridge. Not to compare with Raf's magnificent find of the first post!
On finding I took it to Victoria & Albert Museum London as at that time they had a Wednesday morning room where 'finds' could be taken for an opinion.
They said it was of the medieval period and being so fine most likely for the neck or wrist openings.
However, since I have realised it is non-magnetic ie not of ferrous material, iron or steel. Therefore, possibly of limited protection more for comfort and ease of gilding? and show?
It would to appear to be constructed of alternate rows of stamped and riveted iron or steel rings (about 5mm or 1/4 inch internal diameters). Craftsman made indeed!

The One Penny coin is about 20mm or 3/4 inch diameter.
PS I call it Mail, as at the V & A Museum I was corrected when I called it 'Chain Mail', they said it was not made from chains! I know that Claud Blair one time of the Tower of London Armouries always referred to it as 'Mail'. The popular name is chain mail

You should have pointed out to them the rings are chained, hence that name.

Raf 7th September 2023 05:21 PM

Alternating links of solid stamped rings and riveted links seems to be a feature of earlier medieval mail. On the subject of non ferrous mail apparently the Royal Armouries, having nothing else to do experimented with pouring water on reproduction mail in order to show that water collected on the lower edges . Theory being that brass borders protected edges of mail from corrosion.

Mercer 8th September 2023 06:58 PM

Brass mail
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Raf (Post 284548)
Alternating links of solid stamped rings and riveted links seems to be a feature of earlier medieval mail. On the subject of non ferrous mail apparently the Royal Armouries, having nothing else to do experimented with pouring water on reproduction mail in order to show that water collected on the lower edges . Theory being that brass borders protected edges of mail from corrosion.

That is a very interesting bit of information Raf! And good that the Royal Armouries had a bit of slack time!

Battara 9th September 2023 02:46 AM

Also this seems to me to be the common 4-in-1 pattern of chainmaille.

Raf 9th September 2023 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercer (Post 284563)
That is a very interesting bit of information Raf! And good that the Royal Armouries had a bit of slack time!

In my experience they don't like being disturbed.

Mercer 13th September 2023 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victrix (Post 284525)
You should have pointed out to them the rings are chained, hence that name.

Victrix: With the learned staff of the Curator's Office of the V & A Museum, London I would always hesitate to challenge their opinion.


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