A tulwar from Kishanghar
 

I like it: very restraint style, noble and elegant.

A very *nice* sword, thanks for sharing :)

Beautiful for its elegance, yet business-like, nature.

Lovely find!!

Nice indeed. Is it damascus blade, or have you tried to test-etch it?

Also, I just finished restoring two tulwars. Both have pattern-weld blades. I'll post the pictures soon.

No, I have not tried to etch it yet, but I will try it, when I feel I have the time – being on pension can be rather time consuming:).

It will be nice to see your tulwars:p.

Here is what most Kishangarh armoury marks look like. I really wonder why they made the marks so sloppy. It would have been easier/faster to remove the wax where the letters/numbers were to be and start etching, but they removed the wax around the letters/numbers, and in a rather careless way at that, unless the army just had come home with 25.000 ‘new’ swords and daggers to be marked, before they entered the armoury. Even a stamp would have been a lot faster and easier – although the number would fail – so why etching?

Sorry - here is the mark.

why carve it of wax use a wax pencil or crayon write out what you want. mix the acid with inate product to make a slurry or put it straight on and use the wax pencil to put a quick dam around it. quick and dirty. I suspect a slurry would be the easiest. there is a product on the market called peel away main ingediant as I remember is methal chloride. It comes in a putty and would do the job. Sure there was something similar in the areas

Ward,

Your suggestion is, no doubt, good if you want to make the armoury marks to day – but these marks were made a couple of hundred years ago.

a wax pencil is just poured wax and was available easily in this period also a acid slurry solution I beleive was easily possible. I will check my references when i get time

Wonderful piece Jens!
....and congratulations to the photographer!!

In the image I have of the armoury, there is a table with a series of hilts, seen from the top (pommel). These hilts are of the same style as yours, and am sure your sword was either in the photo (hard to see) or maybe just outside the shot.

Here are the pictures. The top one is very thick with heavy, chiseled on both sides, blade. Note the eyelashes mark in the carved part of the blade.
The second is thin, light and very well balanced. Both exhibit pattern weld Damascus (after restoration. The blade of the second tulwar was in very bad condition, and seems quite old). I also notice a slightly razed yelmen on both blades.
I'd appreciate any observations/comments on these tulwars.

Alex

Nice pair of tulwars you have, with nice Indian blades as well.

Have you had the text on the blade translated? What does the top of the disc look like? Where are the eye lashes?

Thank you Jens,
Please look at the last image above... closely. The eyelashes stamp is right in the middle of the blade, see it?
Also, below are closeups of the pommels and the text. I tried to translate it, but apparently it is very difficult verse, even my Arabic-speaking friend is struggling to translate it.

Hi Alex,

I found these two pictures on my computer, they are from a book called Damascening on Steel or Iron, as practised in India. The flowers on top of the disc looks very much like yours. I remember having read, that all the weapons shown in the book belonged to Maharaja Madho Singh of Jaipur. One could say it is likely that the swords in the armoury came from the same area, but it is no guarantee, as many weapons changed armoury due to the many wars, - often more than once, and there was also a considerable trade.

Thanks for a nice reference Jens.
I think the example you showed is superior to what I have (especially the top picture). I recently saw a similar hilt, but made using different, non-koftgari, technique. The gold appears to be applied like a paste, or thick ink, without any visible cross-stiching of the metal, in very intricate small floral pattern. I have similar hilt in silver (but mine is again inferior to that:-)

Hi Jens,

I have been meaning to post this one since I saw your thread, but, I have been delayed for a number of reasons.
ward's wax pencil idea sounds right to me.

Hope this is useful.
Jeff

Hi Jeff,

Nice to hear from you, and to see your nice tulwar, with a blade well used. The armoury mark is one of the more clear ones. The number on yours is 181, which you probably know already. On mine the number is 2. I have yet to find out what the letters say/mean, but this will no doubt be difficult, as they are likely to abbreviations.

Hi Jens,

Thanks for posting this topic. I had a Sikh friend read the script and he said the letters read (phonetically) "ra - khee - Ka", good luck finding out what that means :) . Of course it may read completely different in Rajasthan.

All the best
Jeff

Hi Jeff,

If a collector thinks it is difficult to find a nice tulwar, to clean it and to etch it, it is nothing compared to the effort it takes to find someone who can/will translate the abbreviated letters:(.

Is the armoury mark the only decoration on the blade, and is the decoration on the hilt in relief or flat?

All the best

Jens

Hi Jens,

I know what you mean about getting translations, don't get me started! :) .

The hilt has raised images, I think it is an iron hilt with a silver wash. The strange thing is the patina is a darkish blue rather than black?

The blade has one other worn mark, I will post it below.

All the Best
Jeff

Now that I look at the enlarged picture it looks like koftghari on an iron hilt. I never noticed that before?

Jeff

Hi Jeff. I've got a dha (what else? :rolleyes: ) I picked up from Artzi a few years ago with silver fittings that have a rich blue, lusterous patina. I imagine this has something to do with the alloy? Perhaps Jose, or one of the metalurgists here can edify this for us.

It looks black here, but in the hand, it's clearly dark blue.
http://www.oriental-arms.co.il/photo...01813/ph-8.jpg

I am not a plater but the plater I use for replating peoples tableware tells me that the metal of the item to be plated will effect the colour. So when gold plating some objects a layer of copper is put on first to help the yellow gold. Silver straight on to steel will be effected, that may explain why even clean of oxidisation the silver has a blue hue. As to Andrews dha I think it is probably the quality of the silver.

There's many techniques to give a blue (or other) colour to a polished steel surface (you may be familiar with the term "bluing"). The basis of all of them is the formation of a (usually thin) layer of specific corrosion products that feature the colour of choice. This, of course, is different than painting, enameling, lacquering or other "covering" techniques, in that the idea is making the metal react chemically and produce a specific spices of compound with the right coloration. Depending on their nature, many of these layers have also some more or less effective protective properties in front of oxidation, combining aesthetics with functionality.

My ears were burning until I got onto this thread... :D

Sterling or purer will oxidize a bluish black and then turn into a dark black as more oxidation accrues.

Hi Jeff,

Are you sure it is koftgari? You have the hilt of course, but it does not look like that to me – it looks as if it is in relief, and if that is so, it can’t be koftgari.

The bluish colour is something else, in one of my books is mentioned that they made the metal bluish or brownish – I have forgotten how they did it, but I am sure one or two of the members know how to do it.

Do you think they belong together or that they were brought together? The blade could be a lot older than the hilt – what do you think?

Jens

Hi Jens,

I thought the same as you, that the hilt was either chiseled or cast in relief, with the floral pattern raised over the back ground. That is until i looked at the details on the enlarged photo. In the back ground the iron hilt is clearly scored. (See below)
I am not sure when this hilt met the blade but it was awhile ago.(well soiled resin below, what ever that is worth :) )
Thanks Andrew, Tim, Marc and Jose on the possible blueing effect. I don't think it is a superficial wash, but more likely related to the intrinsic nature of the Silver. Various stages of the oxidation can be seen from Silver (in areas of recent wear) to a dark blue-black (in areas not exposed to wear). I would bet Jose is correct.

All the Best.
Jeff

Hi Jeff,

I did not mean to suggest that the blade and the hilt had been assembled recently, as it looks old to me. I only asked be course it seems to me as if the hilt was not made for this blade. It is interesting what you can see, when you take a good picture and blow it up on the screen. Details, which you have never seen before, suddenly appears in front of you – it is a good way to study the weapons, which you thought you knew:).

The hilt decoration is strange, and I don’t think I have ever seen anything like it before, but I don’t think it is koftgari. The edges of the ‘background’ seem to be rounded, not with sharp edges, like it would be if it was koftgari, and the wear would be on the floral decoration not on the ‘background’ so this could not have been the reason for the round edges. Sometimes the gold/silver was not filed down to blade level, when koftgari was made, it was left in relief, but to decorate a whole hilt in this way is something I have not seen before. I have seen many different types of decoration, amongst them inlaid and gilded copper in relief. Are you quite sure it is koftgari?

Jens

Hi Jens,

He He He...I have learned, especially with Indian weapons not to be sure of anything :) However a thick Koftgari is the only explanation i can find for it. Any other ideas?


All the Best
Jeff