Ethnographic Arms & Armour

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-   -   Jawa Demam? (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3769)

David 17th December 2006 02:31 PM

Jawa Demam?
 
2 Attachment(s)
This keris recently ended on eBay. I was intrigued by it's hilt, which to my eyes appears to be a more figurative representation of the Jawa Demam. I have never seen this form so humanized, though we do certainly see less abstracted forms, especially out of Sumatra. Paul de Souza comments on his website that while some have claimed the Jawa Demam form to be an abstracted Garuda, there is some evidence that it is the form of a man.
http://home.pacific.net.sg/~dspf/hilt.html
Is this hilt the proof? :shrug:
On the other hand, i don't think this hilt is particularly old so it could be a more modern revisioning of supposed origin. :shrug:

Rick 17th December 2006 03:32 PM

Really Human
 
4 Attachment(s)
You want a human form ?
This hilt is from an old tombak dressed for the tourist market. :D

David 17th December 2006 03:47 PM

It's not so much that this is a human form Rick as much as it has all the same body positions of the Jawa Demam hilts. Unfortunately there weren't too many other views on the auction, but i think if you look you can see the "hump" that you find on the backs of many Jawa Demam. The arm positions seem similar and the figure is leaning forward as if doubling over. The example you present i wouldn't think of as a Jawa Demam.

Rick 17th December 2006 04:21 PM

Non Abstract Figure ?
 
Hmm, I see basic elements of the form in that hilt .
Drawn up knees; arm wrapped around the body .. :shrug:

Alam Shah 18th December 2006 03:05 AM

How about this? Could it be considered Jawa Demam? :confused:
A more handsome-looking old man.:D

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=260

Rick 18th December 2006 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alam Shah
How about this? Could it be considered Jawa Demam? :confused:
A more handsome-looking old man.:D

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=260

I think the elements are there.
The arm or arms across the belly are (I believe) the key to this form.

David 18th December 2006 03:26 AM

Well, i wouldn't say definitely not. ;)
But it does seem that the hilt i posted has a more direct connection to the hilts we know as Jawa Demam. But all these hilts could be various depictions of the same subject. :shrug:

BluErf 18th December 2006 02:31 PM

Hmmm... the form just doesn't flow. It looks a bit too 'ethnographic'. :D

Rick 18th December 2006 02:53 PM

Which particular form that's been shown are you referring to Kai Wee ? :)

Also, now that we have seen a couple of 'possible' related Jawa Demam forms does anyone have an unabstract (to a degree) example of a Garuda hilt ?
If not then when and how does the Jawa Demam morph into the Garuda form ?

Marcokeris 19th December 2006 04:04 PM

Even if the base is curved, in my opinion David's hilt could be not from Sumatra but from Jawa.
The type seems to be rather recent and could be from Madura or near Tegal (model Wayang type).


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